if you disconnect your headphones the device still behaves as if they’re plugged in.
Again, leave the dongle connected to the headphones, not the phone.
It’s so much less convenient
It is less convenient, but I’d argue not by all that much. More importantly it’s not any less convenient for the vast majority who are already only using Bluetooth.
there’s just no downside to having a dedicated headphone jack
It’s an additional, and to most people superfluous, point for water ingress. Water damage is the most common type of damage in phones.
It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few. This is especially important to Fairphone in particular because they don’t use off-the-shelf components and promise to supply replacement parts pretty much indefinitely. I.e. Fairphone would have to design a custom module and then have that module in stock and manufactured specifically for them for the lifetime of each of their devices. That’s not a trivial expense.
the whole back panel is a big point of water ingress when that is not glued shut hard
It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
I never needed the additional camera modules, and there were phones with single camera module that made very nice images. the jack is also often at the top of the device where the battery doesn’t reach, but in my phone there’s also enough place for it between the bottom and the battery for a jack connector. in a fairphone
It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few.
exact same opinion about multiple camera modules. nobody really needs them.
It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
Yes. Anything you add to a phone is a tradeoff. No shit. These points are what is usually used to justify the lack of a jack. But maybe, just maybe, they don’t save as much money as they make with selling wireless headphones and this is just an excuse? Especially the big companies like Apple or Samsung that sell their own peripherals? And this whole thing is just an excuse to sell overpriced gadgets that need to be replaced every few years because of their batteries? Maybe, just maybe, it’d be valid if consumers still had a choice and could pick phones with or without a jack and would have to pay for the luxury of using decent headphones with a few milliamperehours?
It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few. This is especially important to Fairphone in particular because they don’t use off-the-shelf components and promise to supply replacement parts pretty much indefinitely. I.e. Fairphone would have to design a custom module and then have that module in stock and manufactured specifically for them for the lifetime of each of their devices. That’s not a trivial expense.
Manufacturing a phone is not a trivial expense. Removing features is a business decision and a headphone jack costs money but doesn’t earn any whereas they can produce more cheaply without one. I get it. It’s just that doing so requires you to buy and use battery powered headphones that are much less sustainable than traditional magnets tied to a cable. How a company that lives off its promise to safe the world jumps on that wagon is a miracle to me. Companies that remove headphones don’t care about audio quality (which is why Sony still produces phones with audio jacks, I guess) or sustainability. Which is odd for a company like fp.
requires you to buy and use battery powered headphones
This is simply false though, we’d agreed that you are required to buy and use a dongle, and that this is an added inconvenience. But you are not required to switch to wireless headphones and your old cans haven’t suddenly become useless. People still have a choice between wired and wireless, wired has just become a little less convenient, that’s all. I completely agree with you that people shouldn’t go out buying new gadgets if their old stuff is still functional, but you can just continue using your old headphones if you get a new phone if you buy a dongle with it. Inconvenient yes, but not the end for wired headphones.
You keep arguing that people can just use a dongle. I can keep arguing that a dongle solution sucks ass. I have used a dongle and even the way it’s just used sucks because it’s pulled out of the socket with much less force than headphones, so it keeps getting disconnected. If you like it, fine. I don’t and I still think that removing the jack is a dumb decision. This is getting nowhere.
I already admitted a dongle is a compromise, I don’t like them, but don’t start claiming people are forcing you to buy Bluetooth headphones when they’re not.
I just explained how they are effectively doing that because a dongle is such a terrible solution that it’s essentially not usable. I can repeat my points, from charging over being pulled out, and add that they are either incompatible with some devices that don’t supply the analogue audio signal over USB (so you’re usually just buying one of those to see if they work, are happy if it does and then annoyed when you need to use it on another device where it doesn’t and boom you’re suddenly left without working headphones despite having one of those stupid dongles) or come with probably the cheapest, suckishest piece of shit DAC some underpaid Chinese procurement jerk could find anywhere on the market, so the audio quality will probably be terrible even when using wired speakers on a fucking dongle.
Is there a law that prohibits me from trying to keep using wired headphones? No, so you’re right there that they’re not technically forcing anyone. But in anything but making it technically impossible, they’re making it as unusable and unlikeable as possible, so effectively, there’s no way around using Bluetooth headphones.
They’re forcing a decision between two less desirable solutions when a better one already existed solely because it enables them to sell more shit. Removal of the 3.5mm jack is enshittification on a hardware level and people shouldn’t go around making excuses for it.
Agree with everything, but it’s not just that it existed, it’s that it was also already widely adopted for literal decades. This was an established solution that is now getting replaced with something worse. This isn’t betamax that just lost the adoption race against a competitor.
Just leave them connected to the headphones.
Dongles with an additional usb port exist.
Again, leave the dongle connected to the headphones, not the phone.
It is less convenient, but I’d argue not by all that much. More importantly it’s not any less convenient for the vast majority who are already only using Bluetooth.
It’s an additional, and to most people superfluous, point for water ingress. Water damage is the most common type of damage in phones.
It takes up space which could be utilised otherwise, like with a slightly larger battery or larger speakers or camera modules.
It’s an additional part which needs to be manufactured, stocked, installed and purchased. Extra cost which only benefits a few. This is especially important to Fairphone in particular because they don’t use off-the-shelf components and promise to supply replacement parts pretty much indefinitely. I.e. Fairphone would have to design a custom module and then have that module in stock and manufactured specifically for them for the lifetime of each of their devices. That’s not a trivial expense.
the whole back panel is a big point of water ingress when that is not glued shut hard
I never needed the additional camera modules, and there were phones with single camera module that made very nice images. the jack is also often at the top of the device where the battery doesn’t reach, but in my phone there’s also enough place for it between the bottom and the battery for a jack connector. in a fairphone
exact same opinion about multiple camera modules. nobody really needs them.
I can’t have them connected to my headphones all the time because I connect headphones to other devices that all have a fucking headphone jack.
I’ve had watertight phones with a headphone jack over a decade ago.
Yes. Anything you add to a phone is a tradeoff. No shit. These points are what is usually used to justify the lack of a jack. But maybe, just maybe, they don’t save as much money as they make with selling wireless headphones and this is just an excuse? Especially the big companies like Apple or Samsung that sell their own peripherals? And this whole thing is just an excuse to sell overpriced gadgets that need to be replaced every few years because of their batteries? Maybe, just maybe, it’d be valid if consumers still had a choice and could pick phones with or without a jack and would have to pay for the luxury of using decent headphones with a few milliamperehours?
Manufacturing a phone is not a trivial expense. Removing features is a business decision and a headphone jack costs money but doesn’t earn any whereas they can produce more cheaply without one. I get it. It’s just that doing so requires you to buy and use battery powered headphones that are much less sustainable than traditional magnets tied to a cable. How a company that lives off its promise to safe the world jumps on that wagon is a miracle to me. Companies that remove headphones don’t care about audio quality (which is why Sony still produces phones with audio jacks, I guess) or sustainability. Which is odd for a company like fp.
This is simply false though, we’d agreed that you are required to buy and use a dongle, and that this is an added inconvenience. But you are not required to switch to wireless headphones and your old cans haven’t suddenly become useless. People still have a choice between wired and wireless, wired has just become a little less convenient, that’s all. I completely agree with you that people shouldn’t go out buying new gadgets if their old stuff is still functional, but you can just continue using your old headphones if you get a new phone if you buy a dongle with it. Inconvenient yes, but not the end for wired headphones.
You keep arguing that people can just use a dongle. I can keep arguing that a dongle solution sucks ass. I have used a dongle and even the way it’s just used sucks because it’s pulled out of the socket with much less force than headphones, so it keeps getting disconnected. If you like it, fine. I don’t and I still think that removing the jack is a dumb decision. This is getting nowhere.
I already admitted a dongle is a compromise, I don’t like them, but don’t start claiming people are forcing you to buy Bluetooth headphones when they’re not.
I just explained how they are effectively doing that because a dongle is such a terrible solution that it’s essentially not usable. I can repeat my points, from charging over being pulled out, and add that they are either incompatible with some devices that don’t supply the analogue audio signal over USB (so you’re usually just buying one of those to see if they work, are happy if it does and then annoyed when you need to use it on another device where it doesn’t and boom you’re suddenly left without working headphones despite having one of those stupid dongles) or come with probably the cheapest, suckishest piece of shit DAC some underpaid Chinese procurement jerk could find anywhere on the market, so the audio quality will probably be terrible even when using wired speakers on a fucking dongle.
Is there a law that prohibits me from trying to keep using wired headphones? No, so you’re right there that they’re not technically forcing anyone. But in anything but making it technically impossible, they’re making it as unusable and unlikeable as possible, so effectively, there’s no way around using Bluetooth headphones.
They’re forcing a decision between two less desirable solutions when a better one already existed solely because it enables them to sell more shit. Removal of the 3.5mm jack is enshittification on a hardware level and people shouldn’t go around making excuses for it.
Agree with everything, but it’s not just that it existed, it’s that it was also already widely adopted for literal decades. This was an established solution that is now getting replaced with something worse. This isn’t betamax that just lost the adoption race against a competitor.