any recommendations for carbines? I’ve long been under the impression that my bug-out weapon should be one that accepts the cheapest, most common, most convenient to transport ammunition possible and that perception tells me it ought to just be a handgun with a long barrel and a stock.
Warning: I’m autistic–yes, really–and guns are one of my life-long special interests. So, wall of text incoming.
PCCs (pistol caliber carbines) are handy, but I don’t know if I’d want to rely on one as a do-all bug out rifle. In my opinion, for most able-bodied people, PCCs have the worst features of both rifles and pistols; they’re bulky enough that they can’t be concealed easily, and the bullets are less powerful and have significantly shorter ranges than rifles. Some PCCs also have reliability issues, but I don’t know which ones specifically. (That said, the Kriss Vector is cool as hell, doubly so if you can get it as an SBR and silenced. Not always super reliable, but still very neat. And expensive. So, maybe not that.) On the other hand, recoil is very minimal. If you really like PCCs, then I’ve heard good things about the KP-9, which also happens to be produced by a very decent person (e.g., non-chud). PCCs are particularly good for people with some level of disability that prevents them from using a typical pistol effectively.
If you’re a normal person with normal person funds, where buying a rifle is a large purchase, I’d get a 14" AR-15 ‘pistol’ with a solid ‘wrist brace’. As long as you’re buying something nicer than Bear Creek Arsenal or Palmetto State Armory, the brand isn’t going to matter a lot. Don’t waste your money on Daniel Defense or KAC. A reliable red dot optic that’s zeroed at 50y completes the minimalist bug-out ‘pistol’. In this case, I would suggest an enclosed red dot, like the Lead & Steel Promethean; enclosed dots are less likely to get gunked up. Get a bunch of magazines, Magpul 30 rounders if your state allows them, and 10 rounders if your state doesn’t. A “combat load”, IIRC, is 210 rounds, or seven 30-round magazines; if you need that many rounds in a bug-out situation, you are well and truly fucked.
If you’ve got money to burn, I’d suggest getting a piston rifle like the Sig MCX-Spear LT in 11.5" or an FN-SCAR in 11.5" (both will be SBRs, so you’ll need a tax stamp), and then a B&T Print-X VERS36 SS silencer (.30 cal, titanium, modular, full-auto rated–which is unusual for titanium silencers–and yes, you need a tax stamp for it). Both rifles are 5.56x45mm, which means ammo is both cheap and readily available at almost any gun store anywhere. Both rifles are also piston-operated, rather than being direct impingement (DI), so the stock can fold to make it more compact. Yes, piston rifles are slightly less accurate than DI, but at the ranges that a bug-out rifle would be used, that’s probably not an issue. I’d probably get a Dead Air KeyMo adapter and mount for the silencer so you could take it off and put it on quickly, since a silencer is going to add 6-8". If you can afford it, holographic sights are slightly nicer than red dots (albeit with shorter battery life; EOTech and the Vortex AMG UH-1 are the only holographic options), and a 4x flip-up magnifier extends your range. (I use an LPVO and an offset red dot on my primary competition rifle, but that’s a bit much for a bug-out rifle.) You might want a weapon light; Surefire is the standard choice, but I use a relatively inexpensive Steamlight, and it works well enough for night matches out to about 150y or so. At the ranges that you’d ever be likely to need to use a bug-out rifle, that’s likely not a significant issue.
Personally, I don’t worry about a bug-out rifle. That’s low on my priority list. I have enough cats that bugging out means driving with eight pet carriers, not walking, so a full-sized rifle is fine for me. I’m more worried about having a good carry gun. :)
Pity that you can’t teach cats to use crew-served weapons…
The obvious choice is to buy a multi-piece rifle, full size or pcc is up to you, that breaks into 2+ pieces.
That’s pretty much al AR-15s; you can entirely separate the upper and lower receivers. But you’re probably thinking more of take-down rifles. I don’t think that most take-down rifles would be ideal in a SHTF kind of situation. And, to be very, very clear, I think that a very sudden SHTF situation where you need a rifle is very, very unlikely. I think that suddenly needing to evacuate due to weather or fires is more likely, and the kind of civil unrest that might require a rifle, well, we’re already the frog in that pot, and the water keeps getting hotter… Someone is going to throw the first rock at a protest, then it’s going to get very, very ugly, very, very fast.
Well you may not be able to get them to swap out a box magazine from a machine gun in 6 seconds, but you might be able to get them to pull a very small weapons platform? I’m thinking “1911 taped to a stick on a sled” but I’m open to brainstorming.
While you an pull the upper/lower apart, idk if I’d consider that “cat carrier size” unless you have an SBR.
My rifle would need to have the barrel and stock pulled off. Definitely need some sort of takedown rifle, but most mass produced ones are crap. I used to sell guns at a previous job, and we usually didn’t get high end stuff unless it was a special order.
I think by the time you “NEED” a rifle in an end-of-world/society scenario, most of humanity is probably dead, the nuclear fallout has mostly dissipated, and you now need one to assist in hunting/scouting. Until then, I’d wager you’re right about one not being necessary. Shorter barrels, less weight, you really aren’t going to be engaging with anyone beyond 200yds even in large urban settings.
Honestly, I confident enough with my 9mm and my 45 that I could see myself just grabbing those with my utility bag and 4 day kit, and leaving all the heavy ass rifles at home. The only exception is if there’s enough time for my wife and I to grab another round of stuff after corralling the dogs.
As for needing the rifles during civil unrest, well… I have a few neighbors who are definitely going to be ICE targets soon, and they have been invited to start shooting with us in preparation.
I miss the good old days when target practice was fun and banter was abound, now things are too far gone for any sort of levity in those situations. We all know why we are practicing, and will likely need the skills to be as polished as possible soon.
I used to sell guns at a previous job, and we usually didn’t get high end stuff unless it was a special order.
I tried to get a job at a gun store. I am a little too… Unusual in my appearance. It would not have pleased the majority of the customers there. Oh well. (Not that it matters much; margins are low enough that discounts wouldn’t have been any better than what I can get on gun.deals or ammoseek.)
I have a few neighbors who are definitely going to be ICE targets soon, and they have been invited to start shooting with us in preparation.
Very cool. FWIW, as long as they’re legal residents, they should be able to get firearms legally.
I would sincerely hope that any gun owner that saw someone being grabbed off the street by people in street clothes would act to stop the abduction. But I’m afraid that too many people have the bystander virus.
I miss the good old days when target practice was fun and banter was abound
There’s still some of that at some matches. But yes, it’s getting a lot more grim. The tone is shifting, because everyone is starting to see where we’re heading, and wondering what they really would have done in Germany in 1935.
Luckily for me I got the job in-store for bicycles, but then after a few months they couldn’t keep people behind the gun counter and had to ask me to start filling in. By the time I left, I was behind the gun counter more than the bike counter.
I’m positive my looks nowadays would draw plenty of comments, but back then I looked like the stereotypical straight white guy that didn’t have any strong political opinions… I know I’d be getting comments about my appearance now. Lgbtq+ support and long hair are enough I’m sure I’d even have some locals waiting for me to get off work to harass me. It wouldn’t be the first time a republicunt took issue with an employee and tried to wait until closing to start shit. Which is a bad idea when half the employees have their CCW.
No worries about the neighbors owning guns. They’re citizens, they just don’t pass the “paper bag test” for cops, and have their own firearms. They used to be staunchly against firearms until 2020. Then with all the political bullshit leading straight into covid made them reconsider.
I miss being able to shoot a text to 6 friends asking if anyone wants to go shooting at friend 2s house, and within two hours we’re all laughing, chowing down on snacks, setting up a ton of clay targets for some friendly competitions… Now I’m down to 0(ish) friends that aren’t primarily my wife’s friends, and they don’t do target practice. They can strip and maintain all their guns with a blindfold on, but I don’t think they’ve even sighted them in properly. Many discussions have been had over this unfortunately.
The bystander effect made 8 people watch from 15ft away as I literally crawled across a street, covered in blood, my leg twisted the wrong way, after a close call from a truck while riding a bicycle made me eat shit. After one person FINALLY ran over to me, suddenly all 8 were walking over, apologizing saying they thought someone else was coming over first.
Because of that I have decided unless there is a CLEAR leader in getting things taken care of, I’m always going to try to be the first to act when someone is in need. If someone collapses on the ground, I’m running over to make sure they’re breathing/conscious, and I either actively calling an ambulance or pointing at a specific person and going “YOU, MALE WITH THE RED SHIRT, CALL 911 RIGHT NOW” since people react far quicker when called out specifically. Don’t assume someone else will show up to help. You ARE RIGHT THERE. So help.
Anyways, daily reminder that armed minorities are harder to oppress. Armed minorities make governments afraid.
you had me at ‘special interest’ - i’m writing that BEFORE i dive into your wall of text because i want you to be assured that your expertise is appreciated <3
any recommendations for carbines? I’ve long been under the impression that my bug-out weapon should be one that accepts the cheapest, most common, most convenient to transport ammunition possible and that perception tells me it ought to just be a handgun with a long barrel and a stock.
Warning: I’m autistic–yes, really–and guns are one of my life-long special interests. So, wall of text incoming.
PCCs (pistol caliber carbines) are handy, but I don’t know if I’d want to rely on one as a do-all bug out rifle. In my opinion, for most able-bodied people, PCCs have the worst features of both rifles and pistols; they’re bulky enough that they can’t be concealed easily, and the bullets are less powerful and have significantly shorter ranges than rifles. Some PCCs also have reliability issues, but I don’t know which ones specifically. (That said, the Kriss Vector is cool as hell, doubly so if you can get it as an SBR and silenced. Not always super reliable, but still very neat. And expensive. So, maybe not that.) On the other hand, recoil is very minimal. If you really like PCCs, then I’ve heard good things about the KP-9, which also happens to be produced by a very decent person (e.g., non-chud). PCCs are particularly good for people with some level of disability that prevents them from using a typical pistol effectively.
If you’re a normal person with normal person funds, where buying a rifle is a large purchase, I’d get a 14" AR-15 ‘pistol’ with a solid ‘wrist brace’. As long as you’re buying something nicer than Bear Creek Arsenal or Palmetto State Armory, the brand isn’t going to matter a lot. Don’t waste your money on Daniel Defense or KAC. A reliable red dot optic that’s zeroed at 50y completes the minimalist bug-out ‘pistol’. In this case, I would suggest an enclosed red dot, like the Lead & Steel Promethean; enclosed dots are less likely to get gunked up. Get a bunch of magazines, Magpul 30 rounders if your state allows them, and 10 rounders if your state doesn’t. A “combat load”, IIRC, is 210 rounds, or seven 30-round magazines; if you need that many rounds in a bug-out situation, you are well and truly fucked.
If you’ve got money to burn, I’d suggest getting a piston rifle like the Sig MCX-Spear LT in 11.5" or an FN-SCAR in 11.5" (both will be SBRs, so you’ll need a tax stamp), and then a B&T Print-X VERS36 SS silencer (.30 cal, titanium, modular, full-auto rated–which is unusual for titanium silencers–and yes, you need a tax stamp for it). Both rifles are 5.56x45mm, which means ammo is both cheap and readily available at almost any gun store anywhere. Both rifles are also piston-operated, rather than being direct impingement (DI), so the stock can fold to make it more compact. Yes, piston rifles are slightly less accurate than DI, but at the ranges that a bug-out rifle would be used, that’s probably not an issue. I’d probably get a Dead Air KeyMo adapter and mount for the silencer so you could take it off and put it on quickly, since a silencer is going to add 6-8". If you can afford it, holographic sights are slightly nicer than red dots (albeit with shorter battery life; EOTech and the Vortex AMG UH-1 are the only holographic options), and a 4x flip-up magnifier extends your range. (I use an LPVO and an offset red dot on my primary competition rifle, but that’s a bit much for a bug-out rifle.) You might want a weapon light; Surefire is the standard choice, but I use a relatively inexpensive Steamlight, and it works well enough for night matches out to about 150y or so. At the ranges that you’d ever be likely to need to use a bug-out rifle, that’s likely not a significant issue.
Personally, I don’t worry about a bug-out rifle. That’s low on my priority list. I have enough cats that bugging out means driving with eight pet carriers, not walking, so a full-sized rifle is fine for me. I’m more worried about having a good carry gun. :)
The obvious choice is to buy a multi-piece rifle, full size or pcc is up to you, that breaks into 2+ pieces.
Have your pet carriers modified to carry the pieces and some utility things like ammo/cleaning/batteries/etc.
Now when you load up your pets, you also have your carry gun!
No part of this was thought out for practicality, results may vary from intent.
Arm your kitties.
Pity that you can’t teach cats to use crew-served weapons…
That’s pretty much al AR-15s; you can entirely separate the upper and lower receivers. But you’re probably thinking more of take-down rifles. I don’t think that most take-down rifles would be ideal in a SHTF kind of situation. And, to be very, very clear, I think that a very sudden SHTF situation where you need a rifle is very, very unlikely. I think that suddenly needing to evacuate due to weather or fires is more likely, and the kind of civil unrest that might require a rifle, well, we’re already the frog in that pot, and the water keeps getting hotter… Someone is going to throw the first rock at a protest, then it’s going to get very, very ugly, very, very fast.
Well you may not be able to get them to swap out a box magazine from a machine gun in 6 seconds, but you might be able to get them to pull a very small weapons platform? I’m thinking “1911 taped to a stick on a sled” but I’m open to brainstorming.
While you an pull the upper/lower apart, idk if I’d consider that “cat carrier size” unless you have an SBR.
My rifle would need to have the barrel and stock pulled off. Definitely need some sort of takedown rifle, but most mass produced ones are crap. I used to sell guns at a previous job, and we usually didn’t get high end stuff unless it was a special order.
I think by the time you “NEED” a rifle in an end-of-world/society scenario, most of humanity is probably dead, the nuclear fallout has mostly dissipated, and you now need one to assist in hunting/scouting. Until then, I’d wager you’re right about one not being necessary. Shorter barrels, less weight, you really aren’t going to be engaging with anyone beyond 200yds even in large urban settings.
Honestly, I confident enough with my 9mm and my 45 that I could see myself just grabbing those with my utility bag and 4 day kit, and leaving all the heavy ass rifles at home. The only exception is if there’s enough time for my wife and I to grab another round of stuff after corralling the dogs.
As for needing the rifles during civil unrest, well… I have a few neighbors who are definitely going to be ICE targets soon, and they have been invited to start shooting with us in preparation.
I miss the good old days when target practice was fun and banter was abound, now things are too far gone for any sort of levity in those situations. We all know why we are practicing, and will likely need the skills to be as polished as possible soon.
I tried to get a job at a gun store. I am a little too… Unusual in my appearance. It would not have pleased the majority of the customers there. Oh well. (Not that it matters much; margins are low enough that discounts wouldn’t have been any better than what I can get on gun.deals or ammoseek.)
Very cool. FWIW, as long as they’re legal residents, they should be able to get firearms legally.
I would sincerely hope that any gun owner that saw someone being grabbed off the street by people in street clothes would act to stop the abduction. But I’m afraid that too many people have the bystander virus.
There’s still some of that at some matches. But yes, it’s getting a lot more grim. The tone is shifting, because everyone is starting to see where we’re heading, and wondering what they really would have done in Germany in 1935.
Luckily for me I got the job in-store for bicycles, but then after a few months they couldn’t keep people behind the gun counter and had to ask me to start filling in. By the time I left, I was behind the gun counter more than the bike counter.
I’m positive my looks nowadays would draw plenty of comments, but back then I looked like the stereotypical straight white guy that didn’t have any strong political opinions… I know I’d be getting comments about my appearance now. Lgbtq+ support and long hair are enough I’m sure I’d even have some locals waiting for me to get off work to harass me. It wouldn’t be the first time a republicunt took issue with an employee and tried to wait until closing to start shit. Which is a bad idea when half the employees have their CCW.
No worries about the neighbors owning guns. They’re citizens, they just don’t pass the “paper bag test” for cops, and have their own firearms. They used to be staunchly against firearms until 2020. Then with all the political bullshit leading straight into covid made them reconsider.
I miss being able to shoot a text to 6 friends asking if anyone wants to go shooting at friend 2s house, and within two hours we’re all laughing, chowing down on snacks, setting up a ton of clay targets for some friendly competitions… Now I’m down to 0(ish) friends that aren’t primarily my wife’s friends, and they don’t do target practice. They can strip and maintain all their guns with a blindfold on, but I don’t think they’ve even sighted them in properly. Many discussions have been had over this unfortunately.
The bystander effect made 8 people watch from 15ft away as I literally crawled across a street, covered in blood, my leg twisted the wrong way, after a close call from a truck while riding a bicycle made me eat shit. After one person FINALLY ran over to me, suddenly all 8 were walking over, apologizing saying they thought someone else was coming over first.
Because of that I have decided unless there is a CLEAR leader in getting things taken care of, I’m always going to try to be the first to act when someone is in need. If someone collapses on the ground, I’m running over to make sure they’re breathing/conscious, and I either actively calling an ambulance or pointing at a specific person and going “YOU, MALE WITH THE RED SHIRT, CALL 911 RIGHT NOW” since people react far quicker when called out specifically. Don’t assume someone else will show up to help. You ARE RIGHT THERE. So help.
Anyways, daily reminder that armed minorities are harder to oppress. Armed minorities make governments afraid.
you had me at ‘special interest’ - i’m writing that BEFORE i dive into your wall of text because i want you to be assured that your expertise is appreciated <3