You can’t gatekeep being nonbinary. Not unless you’re prepared to define it explicitly, which will exclude many people - and not everyone will agree with your definition either.
I said just because. Not that effeminate men aren’t capable of being nonbinary, merely that it is not sufficient (or necessary for that matter). You have to like actually not identify as entirely a man.
But it’s not my place to fight I’m very much in the binary side of transness.
OP means “don’t assume someone is non-binary because they are an effeminate man” and not “you aren’t non-binary just because you are an effeminate man”
Their intent with the message was clearly less-than-literal. They tried to clear things up in replies but failed. I think it is quite clear that they meant no one any harm, and simply failed to convey their idea properly.
The comment itself should be edited to reflect the original intent, then. People can’t just say stupid and hyperbolic things and not be held socially accountable.
This is a miscommunication, you two are not really in disagreement as far as I can see.
If someone {presents as an effeminate man} AND {they say they’re non-binary} => {they are non-binary}.
However if someone {presents as an effeminate man} AND does NOT {say they’re non-binary}… Then it’s not sufficient.
Are you transphobic as well? I’m genuinely curious. Or does transgender count as “real” in your view because it does have a far more strict definition?
I am too tbh, I think the weird thing is enbies to me are inherently a sort of political commentary through identity on gender and our relationship to it, unless I’m just wrong.
I think the whole issue is somewhat separate from trans people who mostly are just people with a mental neurodivergence/disorder called gender dysphoria that causes them anguish and is caused by their body’s sex and their brain’s innate sense of sex don’t agree and therefore they seek medical treatments like HRT and surgeries and documentation changes to help them perceive themselves and be perceived by others as members of the target sex as much as is humanly possible.
Their political angle is to fight for access to said healthcare to be more common, available through insurance, be taken more seriously with faster wait times and be available to younger people since the effectiveness of a lot of the treatments like hormones depends on the age you start.
Conflating the two imo is kinda like commentary on attention spans relating to social media and the actual neurological disorder ADHD.
I think it’s a little “exotic” to call my existence an inherent political commentary. It’s certainly something that can be used to inform political debate, but I believe saying that it’s inherent misses the point that our existence is only political because it’s politicized
And for what it’s worth, gender dysphoria is also something experienced by nonbinary folks, but it isn’t a requirement of being trans or non-binary either. Some people just don’t experience it and requiring it as a clinical diagnosis is part of the medicalization of our and trans people’s existence as well.
I don’t really know how to finish this lol, I agree with the rest of your comment. I just wanted to correct what I feel are common misconceptions.
Maybe dysphoria isn’t a precondition to being trans, but I don’t get how.
What I don’t understand is then why transition? If you’re fine as you are, why the hassle? Just as fashion/identity? Body modding for lulz? Nothing wrong with either but it’s very removed from my XP.
I only transitioned because I needed to, to me GD is a curse treated with medication and surgeries I couldn’t live without and that’s basically all that being trans is to me. The identity of being trans is defined to me by dysphoria - mental torture associated with one’s birth sex fixed by becoming the other, or as close as possible with current tech.
Also how does enby dysphoria work? Do you just feel dysphoric about a mix of male and female traits? That’s wild if true.
Telling someone whose gender doesn’t conform to the male/female binary view of gender that the term non-binary is a “shit pseudophilosophical concept” that “has no connection to reality” fucking sucks. Either you don’t recognize gender outside of the binary, or you just think these people don’t deserve a way to express and talk about their gender. Either way it’s a garbage take.
Ok but also you aren’t nonbinary just because you’re an effeminate man. They’re different things entirely
You can’t gatekeep being nonbinary. Not unless you’re prepared to define it explicitly, which will exclude many people - and not everyone will agree with your definition either.
I said just because. Not that effeminate men aren’t capable of being nonbinary, merely that it is not sufficient (or necessary for that matter). You have to like actually not identify as entirely a man.
But it’s not my place to fight I’m very much in the binary side of transness.
Whose authority says it’s not sufficient? If they say they are nonbinary, they are nonbinary.
OP means “don’t assume someone is non-binary because they are an effeminate man” and not “you aren’t non-binary just because you are an effeminate man”
I suppose that’s possible, but the thing you say OP is not saying is literally a quote. So at best it’s worded poorly.
Except they literally said that
Their intent with the message was clearly less-than-literal. They tried to clear things up in replies but failed. I think it is quite clear that they meant no one any harm, and simply failed to convey their idea properly.
The comment itself should be edited to reflect the original intent, then. People can’t just say stupid and hyperbolic things and not be held socially accountable.
This is a miscommunication, you two are not really in disagreement as far as I can see. If someone {presents as an effeminate man} AND {they say they’re non-binary} => {they are non-binary}. However if someone {presents as an effeminate man} AND does NOT {say they’re non-binary}… Then it’s not sufficient.
Removed by mod
Are you transphobic as well? I’m genuinely curious. Or does transgender count as “real” in your view because it does have a far more strict definition?
I thought they were gender abolitionist, but I… I’m not too sure anymore.
I am too tbh, I think the weird thing is enbies to me are inherently a sort of political commentary through identity on gender and our relationship to it, unless I’m just wrong.
I think the whole issue is somewhat separate from trans people who mostly are just people with a mental neurodivergence/disorder called gender dysphoria that causes them anguish and is caused by their body’s sex and their brain’s innate sense of sex don’t agree and therefore they seek medical treatments like HRT and surgeries and documentation changes to help them perceive themselves and be perceived by others as members of the target sex as much as is humanly possible.
Their political angle is to fight for access to said healthcare to be more common, available through insurance, be taken more seriously with faster wait times and be available to younger people since the effectiveness of a lot of the treatments like hormones depends on the age you start.
Conflating the two imo is kinda like commentary on attention spans relating to social media and the actual neurological disorder ADHD.
I think it’s a little “exotic” to call my existence an inherent political commentary. It’s certainly something that can be used to inform political debate, but I believe saying that it’s inherent misses the point that our existence is only political because it’s politicized
And for what it’s worth, gender dysphoria is also something experienced by nonbinary folks, but it isn’t a requirement of being trans or non-binary either. Some people just don’t experience it and requiring it as a clinical diagnosis is part of the medicalization of our and trans people’s existence as well.
I don’t really know how to finish this lol, I agree with the rest of your comment. I just wanted to correct what I feel are common misconceptions.
Maybe dysphoria isn’t a precondition to being trans, but I don’t get how.
What I don’t understand is then why transition? If you’re fine as you are, why the hassle? Just as fashion/identity? Body modding for lulz? Nothing wrong with either but it’s very removed from my XP.
I only transitioned because I needed to, to me GD is a curse treated with medication and surgeries I couldn’t live without and that’s basically all that being trans is to me. The identity of being trans is defined to me by dysphoria - mental torture associated with one’s birth sex fixed by becoming the other, or as close as possible with current tech.
Also how does enby dysphoria work? Do you just feel dysphoric about a mix of male and female traits? That’s wild if true.
Telling someone whose gender doesn’t conform to the male/female binary view of gender that the term non-binary is a “shit pseudophilosophical concept” that “has no connection to reality” fucking sucks. Either you don’t recognize gender outside of the binary, or you just think these people don’t deserve a way to express and talk about their gender. Either way it’s a garbage take.