• Toribor@corndog.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    21
    ·
    9 months ago

    I was just talking about this, about how Paul is not a typical hero. Sure he’s the ‘chosen one of prophecy’, but only because of generations of genetic manipulation to create someone with his abilities and centuries of spreading superstition and prophecies. Even then his actions are only sort of heroic in that he helps free the Fremen but thus drives them into a holy war against the entire empire.

    It’s a really cool way of leaning on existing tropes in a self-aware way.

    • Fungah@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      9 months ago

      Paul also bailed before things ran their course, leaving Leto to become supreme jabbs of the universe. He chose what he thought was the lesser ofany evils and was still stacked by the guilt from the choice. Not very common for heroes to just bail on their destiny.

    • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      9 months ago

      It’s important to note that Dune was published in 1965, Star Wars premiered in 1977, and The Hero With a Thousand Faces was published in 1949 but the Hero’s Journey took a while to become a well known concept.

      Lucas has an interview where he talks about going to a lecture by Campbell on the Journey as part of his college studies, while Campbell was observing these common tropes have existed as long as storytelling the idea of this formula existing was still relatively new.

      • dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        I am so fucking tired of people acting like the Hero’s Journey actually says something important about stories or that Campbell isn’t a complete hack.

        • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          Well, it only provided the framework for multiple multi-billion dollar franchises and thousands of individual works of genre fiction…

          • dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            Pre-Disney Star Wars has an objectively trash method of story telling and the plot is incredibly derivative. If you enjoy Star Wars I am not hating on you, I do too but if you think all this hero’s journey nonsense actually helped Star Wars or that George Lucas really helped Star Wars (versus his wife and others involved) you are sorely mistaken.

            Further just because pop culture decided this was the formula stories had to adhere to doesn’t mean that formula is good it means pop culture decided this was the formula stories had to adhere to.

              • dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                9 months ago

                Do y’all seriously think Campbell is still respected academically? Sure he was popular and influential but in terms of the validity of his claims AND his supposed evidence (and extremely biased cherry picking of indigenous cultures’ stories that fit his global narrative) he is not widely respected anywhere anymore.

                I mean for one, the guy was just straight up sexist in an old fashion way. The hero’s journey is a man’s journey he undertakes for the woman (whether that be mother or wife). Like he has just straight up said in the past the hero’s journey is inherently for men.

                This is honestly just a case of the popular consciousness not catching up with the reality that is obvious to people who study this academically.