So it’s almost the end of 2024 and many of us are still in the “New Atheist Movement” mindset (not dissing on atheism, just the movement).
I was in a conversation with someone recently and it made me think of the title question. We had an adventure in philosophy. The person said they were from Pitcairn, as in the country known as Pitcairn, the one with only fifty people living in it. I naturally responded with “uhhh yeah that’s going to be a big pill to swallow.”
“Where are you from” the person asked?
“I’m from so-and-so.”
“Oh, that one village in the Southern US with only forty citizens? I’m going to take a while to register that.”
“But you said you were from an island.”
“Literally the only difference between where you’re from and where I’m from is it’s surrounded by water. Does the water affect the odds?”
The message she was getting across seemed clear. “Proof” is relative.
At another point, we spoke about religion.
“Can you prove Jesus existed?”
“No. Can you prove Genghis Khan existed?”
“No, but Jesus made some high claims.”
“And look at what people said about Genghis Khan who was said to conquer a whole continent.”
At one point, we spoke about God.
“Can you prove God exists?”
“Well… have you ever heard of the church of Google? Is it impossible for something to be considered a true god? Are some things not based on proof but rather criteria?”
“So basically you’re saying anything can be a god if you try hard enough?”
We also spoke of dating at one point.
“You got these guys who say ‘pics or it didn’t happen’ but here I am, belonging to a subgroup of humanity that consists of approximately fifty percent of the population if not more, and suddenly I’m held in suspicion because the demographic of the specific community I was in had my subgroup of humanity slightly outnumbered, yet you can say you have something rare like ELS syndrome and people take your word. Go to Lemmy and ask what separates a claim that calls for proof from a claim more fitting in peoples’ minds to take their word for it.”
“Maybe don’t make claims then.”
“Why not? On the world’s largest source of knowledge I can’t make descriptors?”
“I tend to think peoples’ definitions of claims-that-need-proof to be subjective.”
“Hence why you should ask. But… does each individual have a consistent sense of it? Can they describe in words why claim A can be taken in their mind as is while claim B requires proof? And while some will say it’s a matter of knowing someone and trusting them, if someone came running through Walmart saying ‘run for your lives, there’s a bad entity on the loose’, I’m sure people would panic even though they have no proof of anything.”
So I’m asking you. What separates them?
One idea to always go back to is:
This can be tough to evaluate sometimes, but it’s a good general idea.
Does the claim sit outside the natural world as currently understood by scientific theory?
If yes, then there’s going to need to be a lot of evidence. If not, the level of evidence is lower.
Does the claim involve a low probability event?
If yes, then more evidence is needed of that event.
Does the claimant have a stake in the claim?
For example, does the person get money, fame or other stuff by getting people to believe the claim? If so, more evidence should be required.
What type of evidence would you expect to see, if the claim were correct?
When things exist, they tend to leave evidence of their existence. Bones, ruins, written records, etc. If someone says something exists, or used to exist, but they should have archeological/anthropological evidence to back it up.
Sure, it’s always going to be a bit subjective as to what requires proof. And for a lot of low stakes things, there’s no point in going after it. If someone claims to be from Pitcairn, then what’s the point of questioning it? Just say, “huh, cool” and move on. If someone is trying to convince you that an historical figure existed, and that should effect how you see the world, maybe ask for as bit more evidence.