Israel supported Hamas as an opposition to the PLO
the PLO didn’t fucking exist anymore when Hamas being supported by the Israeli government, Hamas started out as a humanitarian aid group affiliated with the Muslim brotherhood and radicalized before the second intifada, they were supported to undermine the PA who had been created as part of the Oslo Accords (that Israel then ignored), the most prominent example f this being when the IDF conducted air strikes against Fatah (the actual PA government) during the Hamas - Fatah civil war.
Yes the Israeli government helped create Hamas to undermine any attempt at negotiation towards a two-state solution, and a few dead Jews are no biggie, in fact they died as martyrs to justify genocide, you know eggs and omelets, this isn’t out of the ordinary behavior for genocidal regimes.
First off, you haven’t answered my question about why Iran is funding Hamas and Hezbollah if they don’t want genocide. Second, the PLO still exists. Supporting Hamas was a massive failure, but they didn’t do it to kill their own people.
First off, you haven’t answered my question about why Iran is funding Hamas and Hezbollah if they don’t want genocide.
the same reason why the US funded Alquaeda.
secondly, that “PLO” is inconsequential and doesn’t have any actual connection to the original PLO.
and lastly, you assume that extremists like the current Israeli government care about people’s lives, and i very clearly stated that Israel supported Hamas to delegitimize the PA and avoid a two-state solution, and you don’t have to take my word for it, the fucking Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said this.
I can’t find a credible source confirming that. And even if they did, that wouldn’t make Iran’s funding of Hamas and Hezbollah any less genocidal. Fair point on the origins of Hamas, though.
You can’t find a credible source confirming the existence of operation cyclone? I’m sorry, but I think you REALLY need to learn a bit more about the Middle East before you start making statements like you have been here. if it’s news to you that America is the main reason why Al Quaeda, the Taliban and to an extent modern Iran exist as they do.
I’m sorry, but Operation Cyclone is a fact, it doesn’t matter if Al-Qaeda say one thing or another, the US funded them, along with countless other Mujahideen in the late 70s to the early 90s.
And now you’re also trying to bring morals into this like it has any relevance at all, Iran doesn’t care about morals when they support groups like Hamas, Israel doesn’t care when they slaughter tens of thousands of civilians in their open air camps and let another few thousand starve to death due to their blockade, America didn’t care who died and who took power after the expulsion of the soviets from the region, etc…
Iran is supporting the enemies of Israel, not because they want to genocide every Jew or some shit like that, no they are doing it to weaken their local geopolitical rival. Israel supported Hamas for much the same reason, ironically, to weaken the PA, they didn’t do it to cause some Israelis to die, but that was just something they were willing to spend, Because surprise, a government only cares about its citizens as so much as it harms their chances of staying in office, especially an extremist one like Israel.
This is modern international politics. This is the story of western involvement in the Middle East, and the nation state of Israel is the very definition of western involvement. all because the Brits, the French, and the Americans were just a wee tad bit less xenophobic than the Germans, but still didn’t want Jews in their countries (but that’s an entirely different can of worms)
Yes, Operation Cyclone is a fact, but Al-Qaeda literally said that they didn’t receive US funding. They have zero reason to lie about that. Why are you so angry about it?
Morality is the entire point of the discussion. If morals don’t matter, then it shouldn’t matter how many innocent people die at the hands of Hamas - or the IDF. Both sides can do whatever they want and nobody gets to complain about what they do. That includes you, me, and everyone else on Lemmy. If morals do matter, then we need to think about the motivations and actions of every party involved.
Hamas and Hezbollah are both oppressive, extremist regimes internationally recognized as terrorist groups who are intent on destroying Israel. This is literally genocide. Since Iran is funding and arming them, Iran is complicit in their attacks on Israel. Iran is also internationally known as a state sponsor of terror. These are indisputable facts.
Iran only gets attacked by Israel when they start fights with Israel. Their motivation is simply the destruction of a nation that doesn’t provoke them. The recent strikes were a response to Iran’s sponsor of murderous terrorist groups attacking Israel - namely, Iran messed around and found out.
If morals don’t matter, why are you so upset about Israel killing civilians? If morals do matter, how do you feel about Hamas expelling the previous government of Gaza in a civil war, using the entire Gaza strip as a human shield, raping and killing over a thousand innocent people, kidnapping over two hundred of them, and firing thousands of indiscriminate rockets into Israel?
Yes the Israeli government helped create Hamas to undermine any attempt at negotiation towards a two-state solution, and a few dead Jews are no biggie, in fact they died as martyrs to justify genocide, you know eggs and omelets, this isn’t out of the ordinary behavior for genocidal regimes.
First off, you haven’t answered my question about why Iran is funding Hamas and Hezbollah if they don’t want genocide. Second, the PLO still exists. Supporting Hamas was a massive failure, but they didn’t do it to kill their own people.
the same reason why the US funded Alquaeda.
secondly, that “PLO” is inconsequential and doesn’t have any actual connection to the original PLO.
and lastly, you assume that extremists like the current Israeli government care about people’s lives, and i very clearly stated that Israel supported Hamas to delegitimize the PA and avoid a two-state solution, and you don’t have to take my word for it, the fucking Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said this.
I can’t find a credible source confirming that. And even if they did, that wouldn’t make Iran’s funding of Hamas and Hezbollah any less genocidal. Fair point on the origins of Hamas, though.
You can’t find a credible source confirming the existence of operation cyclone? I’m sorry, but I think you REALLY need to learn a bit more about the Middle East before you start making statements like you have been here. if it’s news to you that America is the main reason why Al Quaeda, the Taliban and to an extent modern Iran exist as they do.
Al-Qaeda themselves deny that they received funding from the US. Now, why is Iran funding genocidal terrorist groups acceptable? Can you answer that without saying “well the US is doing it too,” or is this whole conflict tit-for-tat?
I’m sorry, but Operation Cyclone is a fact, it doesn’t matter if Al-Qaeda say one thing or another, the US funded them, along with countless other Mujahideen in the late 70s to the early 90s.
And now you’re also trying to bring morals into this like it has any relevance at all, Iran doesn’t care about morals when they support groups like Hamas, Israel doesn’t care when they slaughter tens of thousands of civilians in their open air camps and let another few thousand starve to death due to their blockade, America didn’t care who died and who took power after the expulsion of the soviets from the region, etc…
Iran is supporting the enemies of Israel, not because they want to genocide every Jew or some shit like that, no they are doing it to weaken their local geopolitical rival. Israel supported Hamas for much the same reason, ironically, to weaken the PA, they didn’t do it to cause some Israelis to die, but that was just something they were willing to spend, Because surprise, a government only cares about its citizens as so much as it harms their chances of staying in office, especially an extremist one like Israel.
This is modern international politics. This is the story of western involvement in the Middle East, and the nation state of Israel is the very definition of western involvement. all because the Brits, the French, and the Americans were just a wee tad bit less xenophobic than the Germans, but still didn’t want Jews in their countries (but that’s an entirely different can of worms)
Yes, Operation Cyclone is a fact, but Al-Qaeda literally said that they didn’t receive US funding. They have zero reason to lie about that. Why are you so angry about it?
Morality is the entire point of the discussion. If morals don’t matter, then it shouldn’t matter how many innocent people die at the hands of Hamas - or the IDF. Both sides can do whatever they want and nobody gets to complain about what they do. That includes you, me, and everyone else on Lemmy. If morals do matter, then we need to think about the motivations and actions of every party involved.
Hamas and Hezbollah are both oppressive, extremist regimes internationally recognized as terrorist groups who are intent on destroying Israel. This is literally genocide. Since Iran is funding and arming them, Iran is complicit in their attacks on Israel. Iran is also internationally known as a state sponsor of terror. These are indisputable facts.
Iran only gets attacked by Israel when they start fights with Israel. Their motivation is simply the destruction of a nation that doesn’t provoke them. The recent strikes were a response to Iran’s sponsor of murderous terrorist groups attacking Israel - namely, Iran messed around and found out.
If morals don’t matter, why are you so upset about Israel killing civilians? If morals do matter, how do you feel about Hamas expelling the previous government of Gaza in a civil war, using the entire Gaza strip as a human shield, raping and killing over a thousand innocent people, kidnapping over two hundred of them, and firing thousands of indiscriminate rockets into Israel?