Ethan

Scripting languages being languages that are traditionally source distributed.

• Source distributed means you can read the source if it hasn’t been obfuscated. OTOH, it is trivial to decompile Java and C# so this isn’t a real difference for those languages (which happen to be compiled languages). So it’s only relevant for languages specifically compiled to machine code.
• Source distributed means the recipient needs to install something. OTOH, Java and C#, again.

So the only ways that the distribution mechanism matter are really a difference between How does the distribution mechanism matter beyond that? And even those points are

They tend to be much easier to write

I’m assuming you are not saying “real” languages should be hard to write…

run slower

Objective-C and Go run slower than C and they’re all compiled languages. Sure, an interpreter will be slower than a compiled language but modern languages aren’t simply interpreted (i.e. JIT, etc).

often but not always dynamically typed, and operate at a higher level

There are dynamically typed compiled languages, and high level compiled languages.

It’s not a demeaning separation, just a useful categorization IMO.

Calling one class of languages “real” and another class something else is inherently demeaning. I wouldn’t have cared enough to type this if you used “compiled vs scripting” instead of “real vs scripting”. Though I disagree with using “scripting” at all to describe a language since that’s an assertion of how you use the language, not of the language itself. “Interpreted” on the other hand is a descriptor of the language itself.

As someone who loves C there are lots of languages that seem too limiting and high level, doesn’t mean they aren’t useful tho.

I personally can’t stand Java because the language designers decided to remove ‘dangerous’ features like pointers and unsigned integers because apparently programmers are children who are incapable of handling the risk. On the other hand I love Go. It’s high level enough to be enjoyable and easy to write, but if you want to get into the weeds you can.

That line is blurring to the point where it barely exists any more. Compiled languages are becoming increasingly dynamic (e.g. JIT compilation, code generation at runtime) and interpreted languages are getting compiled. JavaScript is a great example: V8 uses LLVM (a traditional compiler) to optimize and compile hot functions into machine code.

IMO the only definition of “real” programming language that makes any sense is a (Turing complete) language you can realistically build production systems with. Anything else is pointlessly pedantic or gatekeeping.

The person who uses the shitty tool is a moron. The person who makes the shitty tool is an asshole. At least in this case where the shitty tool is actively promoting shitty PRs.

I have to strongly disagree with you. I’ve used WSL 2 with VSCode, and I experienced waaaaaaaay more weird broken shit than I ever have running Linux. And even if it weren’t for that, it’s still not at all worth it IMO because using WSL 2 means every interaction I have with my development environment has to go through a Linux-to-Windows translation layer. I will never use Windows again for anything beyond testing unless I’m forced to.

How are you using it for data crunching? That’s an honest question, based on my experiences with AI I can’t imagine how I’d use them to crunch data.

So I always have to check it’s work to some degree.

That goes without saying. Every AI I’ve seen or heard of generates some level of garbage.

My point is that I strongly feel that the kind of “AI” we have today is much closer to bacteria than to cats on that scale. Not that an LLM belongs on the same scale as biological life, but the point stands in so far as “is this thing intelligent” as far as I’m concerned.

it’s not inconceivable it could happen in the next two generations.

I am certain that it will happen eventually. And I am not arguing that something has to be human-level intelligent to be considered intelligent. See dogs, pigs, dolphins, etc. But IMO there is a huge qualitative difference between how an LLM operates and how animal intelligence operates. I am certain we will eventually create intelligent systems but there is a massive gulf between what LLMs are capable of and abstract reasoning. And it seems extremely unlikely to me that linear algebraic models will ever achieve that type of intelligence.

Intelligence is just responding to stimuli

Bacteria respond to stimuli. Would you call them intelligent?

I don’t know, have you ever used JavaScript? I’ve run into some really fucking weird bugs. I’ve also spent hours trying to find the source of an error message only to discover the error message was lying and caused by some other error.

The only part of copilot that was actually useful to me in the month I spent with the trial was the autocomplete feature. Chatting with it was fucking useless. ChatGPT can’t integrate into my IDE to provide autocomplete.

The point is that AI stands for “artificial intelligence” and these systems are not intelligent. You can argue that AI has come to mean something else, and that’s a reasonable argument. But LLMs are nothing but a shitload of vector data and matrix math. They are no more intelligent than an insect is intelligent. I don’t particularly care about the term “AI” but I will die on the “LLMs are not intelligent” hill.

I’m the opposite. AI is best (though not great) at boring shit I don’t want to do and sucks at the stuff I love - problem solving.

Their rules have stopped me from being able to do my job. Like the time the AV software quarantined executables as I was creating them so I literally could not run my code. When security enforcement prevents me from working, something needs to change.

if you work in a shared codebase then PLEASE just follow whatever convention they have decided on, for the sake of everyone’s sanity.

That goes without saying; I’m not a barbarian.

“readability” is subjective. much like how there is no objective definition of “clean code”.

Did you not see the part where I said it’s less readable “in my opinion”?

i am insisting that people use a common standard regardless of your opinion on it.

I can read this one of two ways: either you’re making an assertion about what people are currently doing, or you’re telling me/others what to do. In the first case, you’re wrong. I’ve seen many examples of self-closed <br> tags in the open source projects I’ve contributed to and/or read through. In the second case, IDGAF about your opinion. When I contribute to an existing project I’ll do what they do, but if I’m the lead engineer starting a new project I’ll do what I think is the most readable unless the team overwhelmingly opposes me, ‘standards’ be damned, your opinion be damned.

The spec says self-closing is “unnecessary and has no effect of any kind” and “should be used only with caution”. That does not constitute a specification nor a standard - it’s a recommendation. And I don’t find that compelling. I’m not going to be a prima donna. I’m not going to force my opinions on a project I’m contributing to or a team I’m working with, but if I’m the one setting the standards for a project, I’m going to choose the ones that make the most sense to me.

If a spec tells me I should do something that makes my code less readable in my opinion I am going to ignore the spec every time.

GMT doesn’t have daylight savings but London does

I have no issue with their drivers working with their cards. I have issues using a proprietary, out of tree driver that taints my kernel and forces me to jump through hoops to get it to work whenever I recompile my kernel, which happens maybe once a month when Gentoo’s kernel source package is updated.

Also I use Wayland (because that’s what KDE defaults to).

I was an Apple fan for most of my life. And then Jobs died. The man was a huge asshole by all accounts but he sure knew how to design. Since then Apple has become just another tech giant making average products driven by business majors.

I’m about ready to rehome my RTX 2080 and get an AMD card so I don’t have to deal with Nvidia’s proprietary garbage or the shit-tier open source drivers.

Two cocktails will get me tipsy, two beers if they’re strong, but I can drink an entire bottle of vodka (over the course of 2-3 hours) without blacking out. Or at least I could in college, I’m not looking to try again.

That’s an artifact of JavaScript, not JSON. The JSON spec states that numbers are a sequence of digits with up to one decimal point. Implementations are not obligated to decode numbers as floating point. Go will happily decode into a 64-bit int, or into an arbitrary precision number.