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In exchange for the resettling of Palestinians, the administration would potentially release to Libya billions of dollars of funds that the U.S. froze more than a decade ago, those three people said.
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I’m betting this isn’t even about Palestine.
This is to give the US military experience with mass deportations/genocide (look up the definition of genocide, mass deportations are included in the definition) and to dull them to the idea of doing it domestically.
This is genocide. What’s more is that even if Israel annexes all of Gaza and the West Bank, people are kidding themselves if they think they’re going to stop there.
What gives them the authority to “plan” the lives of 1 million people halfway across the globe?
Take the Palestinians in and we will release your own money.
Sure am glad DOGE found all this money for the racist fucks to do things like this. Fuck Elon and the talking Cheeto.
They didn’t find all that much.
Libya: “yeah sure we’ll home them…”
Trump administration working on final solution to the Palestinian problem
Nothing btonsee here people, just a government working diligently on genocide, nothing to see here
ItS nOt A gEnOcIDe!
A republican is president now. Select centrists will actually admit it’s a genocide now.
As I recall, it was important to punish the Biden administration for their role in assisting Israel.
As it turns out, there are severe consequences to ignoring absolutely every warning that Trump would be worse.
Let’s be real, the Biden administration didn’t achieve one single thing to slow things down. While they wagged a finger with one hand, they handed over billions of dollars of bombs with the other. They arranged peace talks that Israel super super promised they’d finally show up to this time and then didn’t for the seventh consecutive time in a row, and the Biden administration went “okay” and handed them more bombs. Maybe Trump is objectively worse, but it’s hard to imagine that a Harris presidency would be meaningfully better in this particular regard based on the actions, not the words, of the Biden administration.
Edit: to be clear, I voted for Harris, because I still wanted to reduce harm, but I really was expecting the older, more powerful, more pro-genocide voices in the party to be steering the wheel here, not Harris.
Maybe Trump is objectively worse
Maybe hurricanes are windy.
Ehh. Is there a meaningful difference between “we’ll help you do genocide and pretend to feel bad about it” and “we’ll help you do genocide and build a casino on top of the bodies”? One feels worse, for sure, but the functional distinction is marginal.
To me, this is an unscientific position. What actions on Gaza has the Trump regime taken that are demonstrably worse than what the Biden administration allowed? Are you forming your judgements based on faith or actual critical thought and observation?
Yes, Trump says a lot of things that are worse than those Biden said. But politicians lie all the time. Biden lied about trying to rein in Israel, and Trump so far has blustered a whole lot about mass atrocities he would like to do. But he hasn’t actually done those.
Again, forget the rhetoric. Trump is a dancing rage clown and you’re getting distracted by by the clown.
What has Trump done, MATERIALLY, in Gaza, that is any worse than what Biden did? Again, not rhetoric, actual real-world actions.
With regards to Israel / Palestine, watching this unfold under Biden reminded me of the scene in Saving Private Ryan where the one soldier was going “shhh” while pushing a knife into the other soldier. And someone else watching but not doing anything about it.
Remember that Biden flat out lied to the American public. He will be remembered for his complicity in genocide, and there is absolutely nothing he can do to prevent this legacy. History is written by the victors, but younger generations get the last word.
Trump is certainly worse for Americans, and I voted with this in mind, but both sides are fucking awful for Palestinians. Lest we forget Chuck “my job is to keep the left pro-genocide” Schumer.
Although not voting was the wrong move, It’s important to hold the democrats accountable imo. They essentially lost the election because they considered genocide more important then their consituents.
The fact is that Gazas fate would have been the same under both party. The way forward is to demand change from the democratic party to avoid such scenarios. Blaming voters implies it wasnt the democrats at fault in the first place for pushing apathy and genocide as their main platform. Even worse, it implies genocide somehow shouldnt be a voting issue.
The hell it would have. To say that the fate of Gaza would have been the same is absolute horseshit.
Democrats lost the election because a bunch of shitheel Muricans decided to stay home.
It’s our fault and fuck y’all for trying to blame Democrats for not inspiring people to protect marginalized groups.
Dems suck but so does the general population that refuses to take any responsibility for their part in making this happen.
If you need a god damn politician to inspire you to think beyond yourself, you fuckin suck and are trash.
Over it.
What evidence do you have for your claim that things are worse in Gaza under Trump than they were under the Biden/Kamala path?
Note, rhetoric is not evidence. Trump lies all the time. Biden lies all the time. Trump says he would like the US to ethnically cleanse Gaza, but he’s taken no actual steps towards that end. And Biden also tried to negotiate resettlement of the Gazans to other countries.
All I’m seeing here are vibe. You see someone who is objectively a bad human being, and you decide that they must be the worst possible person on Earth for every conceivable category. Trump can be far worse domestically than Biden while still being equivalent to him in terms of Palestine.
So again, don’t quote me rhetoric. I don’t care about Trump’s verbal diarrhea. What actual material things can you point to that are different from what Biden was allowing without any resistance? Because I think you’re mostly just going on vibes.
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There’s absolutely no evidence that Harris getting elected would have done fuck all for Palestine.
Democrats lost because a lot of people who voted for Biden in 2020 voted for Trump in 2024. This was due to a perception of a majority of voters that Trump was going to do a better job on the economy, immigration, and foreign policy.
When you look at the polling data, the genocide of Palestinians does not rank high at all, even among Democrats.
Stop blaming people for what they do with their vote. That’s the entire fucking point of a democracy. Hold the right people accountable for thinking they could coast to victory on a strategy of “not being Trump”.
Except instead of talking about building a resort in Gaza, she wanted a two state solution.
I will blame people for a moral failing all I want. Y’all decided to latch on to ONE issue and didn’t give a shit who was harmed because of it, because suddenly, after over half a century of genocide, NOW you gave a shit
You did what the algorithm wanted you to do, and you don’t care who got hurt or is currently in El Salvador, because hey, at least your shit don’t stink
My trans son says “fuck you”.
You are a wannabe. You don’t give a shit about genocide. Because if you did, you’d do everything you could to save lives.
But instead you decided it was morally superior to let Trump in.
You’re all bastards who have put my loved ones in danger.
She was lying, fucking duh
Except instead of talking about building a resort in Gaza, she wanted a two state solution.
No. She said her policies didn’t differ from biden’s. biden did nothing to pressure netanyahu to stop the genocide.
I will blame people for a moral failing all I want.
Opposing genocide isn’t a moral failure. Supporting it is. You should stop but you won’t.
You don’t give a shit about genocide. Because if you did, you’d do everything you could to save lives.
You do give a shit about genocide. You support it so hard that you equate genocide support with support for your trans son.
Did you see any democrat respond to the constant barrage of hate ads against trans people by actively standing up for trans people? Because I saw them avoiding the issue like the cowards they are and letting republicans move the Overton window to somewhere they were more comfortable with, or running anti-trans hate in their own ads as a preview of where the Fascist Appeasement Party desperately wants to be.
No. She said her policies didn’t differ from biden’s. biden did nothing to pressure netanyahu to stop the genocide.
Crab, we’ve been over this before, EVERY MONTH from becoming the candidate to the election Harris was advocating for an immediate cease fire, the release of hostages, and a two-state solution. Over, and over again.
Polar opposite of Trumps “sweep them out and take over.”
August: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html
Could she PERSONALLY negotiate it as VP? No, the VP has no real power unless the Senate is stuck on a 50/50 vote.
Could she PERSONALLY negotiate it as a candidate for President? No, US civilians are blocked from engaging in diplomatic action.
So a) not a function of her job, b) not a function of her candidacy.
ALL she could do was talk about what she would do if elected 1) Immediate cease fire, 2) Hostage release, 3) Two-State solution. July, August, September, October.
The “BUH BUH GENOCIDE!!!” crowd completely ignored what she was saying because they didn’t want to hear it, they are so crawled up inside their own assholes they can’t hear anything.
biden falsely claimed to want an immediate ceasefire, hostage release, and a two state solution.
He also said he wanted to raise the minimum wage, pass all the stuff in BBB, revisit the public option, and reschedule cannabis. All were lies.
It became clear that his support for a ceasefire and a two state solution were always lies as well.
harris was one of the people closest to biden. She had to have witnessed his decline and had a responsibility to say something. She lied instead.
She also said that her policies were no different from biden’s.
She could have shown some daylight between herself and biden on the issue, but there wasn’t any. She ran as a continuation of biden because she was.
Voting doesn’t mean I support genocide.
I guess I support school shootings too? Guess I suppose privatized healthcare as well.
You’re fuckin reaching.
I would be too if I assisted Trump regaining power
I voted for harris as well. I’m not carrying water for her and I’m not going to defend her mistakes by screaming at voters. Her campaign was shit. The only way the party will ever improve is to learn from their mistakes.
And supporting genocide was a mistake.
You’re rewriting history. People stayed home because they refused to vote for genocide, and that’s what Democrats offered unapologetically. You don’t get to blame the voter for not choosing between genocide or genocide plus, you’re not morally superior for voting for Harris.
Side note: while the Gaza genocide was absolutely a factor for many people, I really don’t think most of the voting base used that as the basis for their vote (or for staying home). Americans by and large have become wildly selfish and egocentric, as a society (and I say that as an American who does their best to be an outlier in that regard). I really do think that the biggest determinant of a person staying home was fatigue at the status quo, and a couple of years of 10% inflation alongside the fact that everyone in the DNC was trumpeting about how great the economy was doing, while a VERY large percentage of the populace had lived through at least two “once in a lifetime” economic crises, and the playing field continues to get visibly worse as time goes on.
Then vote for a third party, and make your voice heard. If 10% of the vote went to an anti-genocide party, at least next time Democrats would realise that being pro-genocide is bad for them.
Then vote for a third party, and make your voice heard. If 10% of the vote went to an anti-genocide party, at least next time Democrats would realise that being pro-genocide is bad for them.
They already realize it and don’t care.
Yes I do. And yes I am.
You said “I don’t care what the trolley does because this test isn’t moral”
The rest of us actually made a choice.
Get fucked. You helped put my trans son in danger and I don’t fuck with ANY of you fucks cosplaying as revolutionaries.
You’re children.
I’m trans. I voted for Kamala, but I have zero hate on anyone who didn’t due to Gaza.
The Democrat’s problem isn’t just Gaza. It’s what the enabling of a genocide signals and means. If you will enable a literal ethnic cleansing, what won’t you do? You’ve literally already elevated things to full-on Hitlerian levels. If you’re willing to do that for political power, there is nothing you won’t do.
And as we’ve seen recently, Democrats have frequently thrown trans people under the bus. Even Kamala didn’t even try to refute the endless barrage of anti-trans ads thrown by the Republicans.
When asked if she supported trans care for inmates, do you know what she said? She said, “we’ll follow the law.” She was defending her past actions as California attorney general to provide trans prisoners gender-affirming healthcare. But when given the perfect opportunity to stand up for trans people everywhere, she said that she only did it because it’s what the law required of her.
Someone who actually gave a shit about trans lives would never say something like that. Instead they would say, “of fucking course prisoners get trans healthcare. Trans healthcare is medically-necessary care. It saves lives. To deny someone that care or to force them to detransition is literal torture. We sentence people to prison. We don’t sentence them to torture. We give inmates gender-affirming healthcare because to do otherwise is cruel and unusual punishment.”
That’s how you actually answer that question if you have an ounce of empathy in your soul for trans people or any understanding of the issue at all. If you make trans care some frivolous thing that can be denied to prisoners, then all trans identities are frivolous and undeserving of legal recognition or respect in any context.
And there are far worse Democrats than Kamala. Plenty of centrist Dems are willing to throw trans people under the bus if they can earn cheap political points. It turns out that if you’re willing to support a literal genocide, then persecuting a small minority group isn’t that big an ask. Once you’ve committed murder, shoplifting isn’t something you think twice about.
Quit using your trans son as an excuse, you supported a pro-genocide party because you were willing to trade the lives of innocent palestinians to secure your own security and comfort.
“I can’t be pro-genocide, I have a kid I only care about when it wins me a victory on the internet aginast people with consistent morals.”
You helped put my trans son in danger
Members of the party you support ran anti-trans hate in their own ads. The presumptive frontrunner for their 2028 nominee threw trans people under the bus to appease the fascist guest he had on his podcast.
centrist democrats are as committed to trans rights as they are to any issue (save one). Which is to say, they will abandon it at the first sign of a disapproving look from a fascist. centrist democrats have solidarity with exactly one man on this earth, and his name is netanyahu.
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What is currently happening, and how it’s happening, is a direct result of the thought process you’ve outlined.
Of all instances in time, it’s now that you want to crank the Both Parties Are the Same knob?
We need to do something about this censorship.
I looked up their mod history and saw “Anti-Yanks ban evasion” What does that even mean?
Not if you don’t admit it to yourself and others!
As I recall, genocide was so important to centrists that they were willing to lose democracy for it.
Voted for harris. Will never stop hating myself for voting to enable genocide.
Centrists are just mad that their only policy is being enacted by their second favorite candidate.
It just wasn’t an important issue when they looked at the polling data. The average American cares more about a lot of other stuff over ethnic cleansing in Palestine.
The incumbent administration looked weak in so many ways, that taking a stance against Israel would not have made a difference. Politically, it was just a wedge issue on the left. They needed to win the voters that moved from Biden to Trump, and the DNC was (and probably still is) entirely incapable of taking any big swings.
They lost because they actually expected to. Neither party actually gives a shit about democracy; power is just a mantle they pass back and forth. They are in a “you win this time” holding pattern waiting for the Republicans to fuck things up so badly that they can come back and win in '26 and '28.
It just wasn’t an important issue when they looked at the polling data. The average American cares more about a lot of other stuff over ethnic cleansing in Palestine.
I doubt any claim regarding what polling data unavailable to the public says. The biden administration played arms dealer for a genocide (not the mealy-mouthed euphemism “ethnic cleansing”). Why would lying about a few polls be a bridge too far?
They considered genocide opponents too insignificant to listen to. Everyone who is blaming the anti-genocide left now needs to remember that they were so devoted to netanyahu that they didn’t want to listen to people whose votes they were happy to discard in their zeal to wipe out Palestinians.
I think the ghoulish cartoon you paint of Democrats foaming at the mouth at the ongoing genocide in Gaza is inaccurate. Let me be clear, there is genocide happening as part of ethnic cleansing for the entire promised land of Israel. I expect Israel to attempt to expand into Syria next, all the way up the coast to Turkey.
And yeah, USA will sell arms to whomever has the money to buy them, no matter who controls what branch of government.
Ok I am making assumptions about internal polling done by the DNC or the Harris campaign, but Pew and Gallup published poll data before the election.
I think the ghoulish cartoon you paint of Democrats foaming at the mouth at the ongoing genocide in Gaza is inaccurate.
Over the past decades, I’ve seen democrats capitulate over and over about so much. They remained steadfast on genocide.
I heard time and time again how they just didn’t have the power to do the stuff they ran on, how procedural bullshit was absolute and how nothing could get around it. Then they ignored the Leahy law for more than a year.
It’s the cynicism that is bred by and fuels the political furnace. Cynicism can be understood and respected by your opposition.
Those decades have been spent working to keep progressive and leftist voices out of their party, especially ones that threaten their scaffolding of seniority and stability. They have actively prevented the DNC from what the right pulled off with the Tea Party Movement by tightening the reigns on primaries, disenfranchising and ignoring grassroots movements showing good faith, selling out to corporate lobbies, keeping fresh ideas out of policy by manipulating committee appointments, and so much more.
And are they sorry at all when their machinations play into the hands of fascists? No, they actually seem fucking proud of it.
So why is genocide the exception? Why is that the only thing where nothing stands in their way? Why is it the only issue they don’t immediately abandon when they get pushback?
If genocide is all “centrists” care about then they would be fucking ecstatic over Trump’s policy not mad.
They ain’t mad at trump.
They’re mad at everyone who didn’t like their genocide.
… Wait, that they’re getting now?
So they should be happy?
I mean, your argument is incoherent enough I think you need to consider an appointment with a mental health professional.
… Wait, that they’re getting now?
What they’re getting now is a continuation of the same policy centrists spent all of 2024 defending.
So they should be happy?
The only reason centrists aren’t happy is because their second favorite candidate is carrying out their only policy instead of their favorite candidate. And they’re not directing the anger at trump. As with the entire year they spent defending their genocide, they’re directing their anger at their left and only their left.
I mean, your argument is incoherent enough I think you need to consider an appointment with a mental health professional.
Gaslighting people who don’t agree with you is what centrist genocide apologists do when they know the only policy they actually stand up for is monstrous. Concession accepted.
Mussolini or Hitler. Should I pick the least worse?
… Yes, yes you absolutely should.
There is literally no comparison there, you absolute grapefruit, Hitler killed something like 30 million people all told, mussolini killed maybe thousands max.
“haha, should I shoot myself in the leg, or in the head, hurr durr!”
Fucking children.
LOL. The end cracked me up
Hitler or Stalin. Which one would you ally with? After all, according to lemmy’s vocal group of centrists who scream “tankie” at anyone to their left, Stalin killed more people.
So based on your criteria, how much happier would you be with the US as members of the Axis?
First one then the other.
Whichever was weakest to eliminate the strongest, then rinse and repeat.
Your insane childishness is thinking that either matters.
Both need to lose, the GOP should always lose and be destroyed, that’s the actual end goal.
Whichever was weakest to eliminate the strongest, then rinse and repeat.
Hitler was weaker than Stalin. Thank you for clarifying that you would ally with Hitler.
Your insane childishness
Fuck your gaslighting, quisling.
Both need to lose, the GOP should always lose and be destroyed, that’s the actual end goal.
You don’t expect anyone to actually believe that this is a goal of democrats, do you? Lemmy’s centrists rejoiced at dick cheney’s endorsement and actually acted betrayed when gwb didn’t endorse harris.
Hitler was weaker than Stalin. Thank you for clarifying that you would ally with Hitler.
Hitler was winning. He was exterminating Stalin who would have lost without our help.
And Stalin killed as many people as Hitler eventually had before the war even started.
I don’t care about Hitler or Stalin, but I’ll ‘ally’ with either to make sure both die painfully.
Destroying the GOP is my only goal, there’s time to think past that when it’s done.
Btw, in this metaphor, we beat both, and we did it well.
Edit: Stalin stronger than Hitler, hahaha.
Worthless dickless genocidal fuck got his ass handed to him by a handful of Finns, just like their great grandchildren are being made bitches by Ukraine.
Destroying the GOP is my only goal
Then stop supporting losing strategies.
Pick the party that Benjamin Netanyahu wouldn’t be willing to give a solid gold pager as a gift/public relations gesture.
What makes you think the Biden administration would have done anything differently?
Do you honestly believe they would have gotten in the way of what Israel wants?
What makes you think the Biden administration would have done anything differently?
My basic observation skills and low tolerance for bullshit.
Do you honestly believe they would have gotten in the way of what Israel wants?
I’ll go out on a limb here, and say that Kamala Harris would not be working to ship Palestinians to Africa.
You know what? I think that Netanyahu’s progress (murder rate) would be much much lower than it is today.
But biden was totally playing hardball with netanyahu behind the scenes.
Oh yeah, that was just another fucking lie from the people who brought you “biden was completely lucid at the debate, what are you talking about?” and “biden was jet lagged from a trip he took nearly two weeks prior!”
Remember how Biden wasn’t running for reelection? Yeah no one else does, either.
I remember his sycophants lying repeatedly. The question was about biden and I answered it.
Nice try at a pivot. harris openly offered no change from the genocide support and the lying.
Biden would have let his buddy BiBi literally kill every last one is us, don’t kid yourself.
Biden would have let his buddy BiBi literally kill every last one is us, don’t kid yourself.
World opinion on Israel is deteriorating, and has been deteriorating for decades. Punishing democrats enabled the current administration.
Trump is an accelerant. He is currently helping BiBi kill Palestinians at a rate and scale that will bring him closer to his goals, faster than the world finally turns on him.
The Now is consequences of poor voting decisions.
Thank God we didn’t let that happen…
Send the Israelis to Libya instead
Nah, they would colonize it. Send all the Israelis to America where they can suffer.
While I don’t think it does us any favors to front-load any plans for the future with “just send <group> to <place>”, it’s also good to point out that a chunk of them are originally from Libya in the first place.
“It couldn’t possibly get worse”
Fuck’s sake. I want to cry.
Some people have no imagination…
Deficient, juvenile, and narcissistic. And they make all the marginalized groups they claim to defend suffer for it.
Coming soon to Libya: new concentration camps
Soldiers for more war in Libya. They won’t have a say, it’ll be mandatory.
Well, at least the Palestinians living in Michigan now know where the administration is going to send them.
Wow. He did manage to top what people said Harris would’ve done.
/s no maybe not
There’s a 0% chance democrats would do anything to oppose Israel.
