Do people in France have flags on their cars? Do they sell clothing with the flag for Zimbabwe everywhere? Do people dress as their country’s mascot for every day events?
US has alot of propaganda through various means, but its greatest affect is on conservatives, they are much easier to convince. copaganda, military propaganda, performative politics for the military.
Turkmenistan has some amazing propaganda and surprisingly, interesting music on the propaganda channels. Never would want to go there, though.
The fuzzy hat horse sing-along segment goes surprisingly hard? 16:31, pre-stamped:
North Korea is.
In public spaces and every day life no.
Sports yes.
Pledging allegiance to the flag in school? That is absurd.
No.
Americans don’t realise how strange this hyperpatriotism is.
From the outside, “pledging allegiance to the flag” is cult behaviour; it’s seen as brainwashing.
I visited LA last year and you almost cannot exist in any space anywhere in the city without having at least one american flag visible. Often there are dozens of flags visible from any given sightline. This is not usual. Most countries will fly a flag over important buildings, or maybe in any given city there will be a few national flags in key locations. If the city has a good flag design, maybe the city flag is displayed frequently, such as in Amsterdam.
But outside America, people don’t have this need to express how much they love their country. In America it looks like a competition as to who can adore their country the most. That’s really not healthy citizenship as imo it discourages criticism.
Canadians responded to the American presidential threat by throwing flags up everywhere and let me tell you, that shit does not sit right with me.
I prefer to support my country in a less colonial way, personally.
So I just took a small sample (outside of major business districts) with Google maps street view dropping random pins in L.A. and searching for American flags. 0/3.
Same with Paris. 0/3.
I guess I got lucky? People can do their own samples and will likely see the inverse of my results.
Yeah, the pledge of allegiance is kinda stupid and has been cut from most schools at the start of the day. (That is likely regional though.) It’s still kinda weird that sports events still leverage national anthems too.
Many people here see hyperpatriotism as kinda weird and is more closely associated with (the bad kind) of nationalism.
To answer all questions like this, it depends on where you go. Some places are worse than others. Culturally important cities tend to be much more 'murica than others.
My sample was not random because I went to populated areas where people/tourists are likely to go. I wasn’t saying it’s literally true that you cannot go anywhere without flags. But it was striking to both me and the person I was there with the sheer number of flags that seemed to be everywhere. We joked that there must be an unspoken rule that a business without a flag would be snubbed and seen as as an enemy of the state.
I’m sure random google maps locations don’t necessarily have flags, but if you visit you can’t deny the overwhelming prevalence of them in e.g. malls/high streets/the beach/in restaurants/etc.
Are you talking about Louisiana or Los Angeles? Both have beaches and malls… I could see there being a lot flags in Louisiana, Los Angeles not so much, unless it’s Memorial Day or 4th of July.
As someone in Louisiana, I can attest to this.
Also, the struggle of having to decipher if someone is talking about “L.A.” or “LA”.
Every country has their own brand and degree of nationalism. For example, in Europe, you won’t commonly see the national flag displayed in a private context in countries like France or Germany, but it’s very common as a decoration in Switzerland and Denmark. Doesn’t mean I’d really compare the Danes or Swiss to American nationalists though. I think what makes US-brand nationalism a special kind is the intense superiority complex, the feeling that they’re the greatest country on earth and everyone else doesn’t matter. No Swiss nationalist would think that their country could thrive without at least some degree of cooperation with other countries.
Maybe other large-population countries like China and India might be more similar. When I went to high school in China as an exchange student, they had a flag-raising ceremony once a week where the national anthem was played. But I guess that’s still tame compared to having the pledge of allegiance every day.
I think what makes US-brand nationalism a special kind is the intense superiority complex, the feeling that they’re the greatest country on earth and everyone else doesn’t matter.
You’re spot on, to the extent that there is a concept describing exactly this: American Exceptionalism.
Yup, seeing a french flag in a private context feels off, you immediately get the sense that whoever put it up has very intense feelings about the Motherland/Fatherland.
A buddy of mine in wales tells me that you basically can’t fly the flag there because you’ll get bullied by police to take it down except during football season.
I’m sorry but that’s not true. The Welsh are pretty nationalistic and proudly fly the Welsh flag everywhere. You don’t see the union flag as much but there’s no way you’d get in trouble with the police for flying either flag.
I lived in Wales for 8 years.
The Swiss might be a bad example. They are easily the craziest, most nationalistic people in Europe. I’ve dealt a lot with Swiss from all kinds of backgrounds over several years, and with foreigners living and working in Switzerland, and I can confidently say that I have never experienced anything comparable to how normal and ingrained xenophobia and an endless vicious hate for foreigners are in Swiss culture. The average Swiss seems to despise foreigners (who make about 50% of the workforce, btw) and views themselves and their country as superior to anything that might exist in the universe. This is not only a rural problem, it is common in several cities as well, perhaps most prominently in Lucerne. Their xenophobia has also been institutionalised with the Swiss police of several cantons enjoying the harassment of foreigners as their favourite pastime.
I guess North Korea wins this contest. Then Singapore. Usa comes later…
Russia and China are up there, too.
Don’t confuse patriotism with nationalism. Patriotism is love for one’s homeland, nationalism is a delusion of blood and soil.
Yeah, I’m a patriot, but I hate nationalists with a passion.
We Americans have little past by which to define ourselves, so we fall to “We’re the best!”. There’s a joke to be made about white supremacists doing the same.
Love us or hate us, you gotta admit we’ve had one hell of a run in a very short time frame.
I can imagine it’s harder to have a national identity when your nation is based on forced removal of indigenous people and their persecution (not to mention all the slavery), because my normal line is usually “everywhere has the same amount of history”, but if the US doesn’t see the history of the American Indians as theirs, or at least as something to honour and commemorate, then I can see perhaps that that might cause a mental malaise.
This is such a comically ignorant view. Most countries in the world have a similar history as the US. It’s like you dingleberries think the US is the only country in history with slavery or conquest. This view shows that you have a myopic view of history.
Every single country in the New World is a product of European colonization, slavery, and erasure of Indigenous people. This is true from Canada all the down to Chile. In fact, this is actually more true in other countries because the US was a small part of the Atlantic slave trade and the Spanish and Portuguese empires made killing natives their favorite past time.
It’s not just the new world, but this also applies to the old world. Countries like Turkey, Russia, Azerbaijan, South Africa, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Morocco, Australia, New Zealand, and the list goes on and on were had similar histories.
The reality is that this just how nation building is. Nations don’t spring up out nowhere and magically gain land and sovereignty. Nations are built through conquest, hardships, exclusive sense of pride, and cultural homogeneity over time.
Most countries in South and Central America have a less exclusionary relation with their indigenous people, and having a rebellion against their ruling classes with indigenous participation rather than switching one set of white rich property holders for another.
Part of that due to the Spanish settlers marrying and having kids with indigenous peoples, and the metizos being a large part of the population, rather than US focused pure European ancestry without one drop of black/native blood. Meaning the US has a lack of tie to pre-settler culture and history that these nations don’t to the same degree.
I do agree that Canada has an issue with it too, as does Australia. New Zealand has been working to integrate Maori culture over the last decade or so and made big strides to integration.
The old world cases are also more complicated, you could say South Africa but that history of oppression and apartheid and recognised and have been integrated somewhat to self identity, though obviously a long way to go and the ANC being corrupt and infighty hasn’t help one jot. Maybe the party will collapse and South Africa can finally start to move in the right direction?
Russia has had a long history of culture as well as imperial expansion. Yes, the people of Siberia and Central Asia have suffered a lot, but there’s a Russian identity that goes back over 1000 years anchored to (albiet mostly western Russia places and events).
For Türkiye, Morroco, Azerbaijan, Zimbabwe, Zambia, I’m gonna need your notes to begin to comprehend what your point is with them - probably due to my own ignorance on their history. (Except Türkiye, I just think you’re wrong there, but intrigued to see your logic.)
You’ve seemed to have left out the part about the plagues brought by the Spanish that wiped out entire civilizations in South America before any Europeans had any chance to even come in contact with them.
Let’s not sugar coat the fact that the origins of Latino culture is no better than what happened to the natives of North America. The Spanish are well known to have completely destroyed indigenous cultures and their history in the name of Christianity.
Rarely in Europe.
If there is the Football World Cup or Euro Cup, you will see flags in European Cities and People wearing them are not uncommon.
During a random Tuesday, this is very uncommon as people tend to remember in which country they live without having to be reminded.
Hard no. I’ve been to 25ish countries (I’ve lost count), and US is the only country I’ve been to with so many flags and rituals around the state and its government.
- National anthem before every sportsball game.
- Pledge of allegiance.
- Flags every where every day.
- “Thank you for your service”.
- Picture of President in any building that serves a government function (at least the ones I’ve been to… Not that many, tbh).
- Naming anything and everything after presidents and statesmen
Like mentioned in another comment there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism.
I would add to that there is a difference between loving one’s country and being a fetishist of its flag or its national anthem.
You will find flags in all countries. The question is more what proportion of the population is obsessed with them?
I’m French and I can tell you that beside the far-right, who loves waving flags and singing the first few lines of the Marseillaise (most of them, like the rest of the population probably have never taken the pain to read the entire song, even less so to memorize it, too much of a hassle). For the most part, you will find flags on public buildings and offices. Seldom on private home/office.
Also, it’s visible during special celebrations, say, each year for the 14th of July (France’s birthday) some streets and stores will be decorated and, at least where I live (Paris), public transit will also have a little flag waving in the wind.
Last but not least, you will mostly see the French flags waved, this time en masse, during sport events. People will also proudly wear french colors on their clothing and on their face, or on their head (I fucking love this stupid hat, but Io don’t own one). But then you will also see the other countries flags being waved by their own supporters, and most of the time they don’t end-up killing one another ;)
Like I said, people barely know more than the first few lines of our national anthem, kids are not required to swear allegiance to the flag either at school. Some people are discussing about bringing that back but I’d rather see them bring back some traditional reading and math lessons, like in the ‘good old days’… when kids actually were taught something useful. Because we’ve been suffering from the same issue you have with your US school system: it’s falling apart, badly. Our kids aren’t taught much if anything. More and more of them can barely read or write, and they can’t do simple math. Let’s not mention getting any notion of civic education, history, philosophy (which would all help make a more informed & better-equipped citizen, which is not that silly in any country that is supposed to be a democracy).
That being said, even without a flag, we’re many to love our country, despite all its flaws, even those of us who criticize it vehemently. We just don’t need to show that by waving some cheap piece of fabric, or glue a sticker on a some car.
I have bookshelves filled with books on French (and European) politics, history and philosophy. Sure those are not flags I can wave on the street or glue on my car to show what a true patriot I am but, imho, their non flashy content represent France (and the many other EU countries) a little better than any cheap piece of fabric put on a mast.
That being said, I have a pair of socks with a french flag on them. Could that count a patriotism? ;)
Yes! Every country has its own brand of nationalism. It just so happens that different country have different flavors of it.
I think Americans should go answer that for themselves. As an exercise.
Most Americans can’t read. The rest you lost at ‘exercise’
I should be offended, but this is just too damn funny.
Generalize much?
OP’s being a smart ass, but I recently learned that their statement is true, for a certain value of “read”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
There is much literature (heh) that quotes the same numbers, or near enough. So yeah, I’m going to say most Americans can’t read. And BTW, this is one of the most shocking truths I’ve learned in life.
Yeah, the US has reached an incredibly low standard of literacy for what is supposed to be a developed nation. The numbers on reading level are scary. Also look at how much people read as adults. We just don’t learn how and then we don’t practice during our lives. It’s a nation of partial literacy being kept together my hyper nationalism and smart phones to distract us with 6 second videos.
Yep, this is generations of slowly gutting public education at work.
The privileged kids get to go to fancy private schools, many of which are ironically now funded by the public (who don’t get to send their kids there). Everyone else goes to underfunded public schools, which have tragically underpaid teachers who run the risk of losing their jobs if they don’t give every student a passing grade. Teachers in struggling school districts are just shoving their students’ deficiencies onto the next grade up, which continues to snowball until you end up with a majority of high school seniors graduating with a 7th grade reading level at best.
In saying that, it’s not all doom and gloom, but it highlights a key disparity that affects some parts of the US more than others. Some US states actually have very good public school systems, up there with high performing countries in Europe and Asia. But when considering how bad the average is in the US, it means that there are a lot of states that are substantially worse than that, where things are just incredibly dire.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the lowest performing states are mostly in the southern US.
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Start watching other countries sports. Especially Formula One. Then you will see the flags and hear the anthems. At this point my husband has the British and Dutch anthems memorized
