Only a few more years now till the retro sound of CDs comes back into style. I realize vinyl is a great and unique user experience with a specific timber, and more enjoyable to collect.
It’s kind of funny when you hear about the “analog warmth” when albums were being digitally mastered as early as the late 70s… And pretty much all re-releases are digitally remastered.
Only a few more years now till the retro sound of CDs comes back into style.
I liked the artwork on the disks themselves, and the feeling of opening a box, taking the disk out with that cracking sound, pushing a button on the drive and seeing and hearing it open, and then the sound of spinning when it’s being read.
Every bit as “warm” as vinyl in my opinion (born in 1996, so of course it is).
Your mistake is equivocating digital with analog. There is nothing “retro sounding” about CDs, you can download lossless digital versions of albums that are identical to what you’ll find on a CD.
That’s technically true, but it is entirely possible CDs come back as a retro meat-space alternative to the corporate streaming dystopia we’re headed towards, or using CDs as a secondary retro proxy to feed nostalgia for production mastering trends of the 1990s-2000s era.
They already are! Some young artists are already doing those 2000s nostalgia CD releases for the kicks of having a physical medium.
However a big part of the marketing for vinyl has historically been “the sound is warm/high definition/whatever audiophile bullshit”. Anyone can achieve the same “warmth” with an EQ and some crackle/white noise (it works so well it’s a whole genre called lofi…), but the “vinyl sounds better” crowd will make the unfalsifiable claim that “it’s not the same”.
However, good luck claiming that “CDs sound different from FLACs”!
In the end both vinyl and CD enjoyers are doing the same thing: enjoying music through personal and ritualistic manipulation of physical objects, that also come with nice album art. It’s just that some vinyl enjoyers are attributing some of that enjoyment to a largely made-up supposed “superiority” of sound (yes there are edge cases like “bad” remasters of songs originally released on vinyl, but is that really why anyone buys a turntable? Be honest.).
Exactly, although CD isn’t so much “retro” as it is a high frequency, high dynamic range audio recording. The only reason vinyl sounds “warm” is because their dynamic range & frequency is compressed so the needle doesn’t bounce out of its groove.
While it’s possible for a CD to receive a terrible master, if the mastering across formats is the same and other biases are eliminated (i.e. proper A/B testing) then CD will be objectively better sounding every single time.
They sound exactly the same as the digital releases. Only audiophiles up there own arses believe that they can hear a difference. Vinyls sound different but for obvious reasons.
Edited to add: most CDs sound the same as their digital releases (assuming they had the same master which I’ve found isn’t always true), but occasionally you can actually get higher resolution, up to 96k/24 bit, which do sound different depending on your playback device.
Most of the difference is likely due to the nature of the DA filter being applied during playback, as I certainly won’t notice the noise floor between 16-24 bit, and any frequency difference is far far behind my range of hearing.
If you aren’t familiar with what I’m referring too, different DA implementations use varying filtering techniques, some have a slight roll off in the upper frequency range to improve the accuracy of transient response, while others use a flatter frequency response sacrificing the transient. Newer DAs from some manufacturers allow you to select which option you prefer. At double and quad sample rates this can largely become a moot point as any sacrifice to the frequency response is far out of the range of human hearing.
Vynil is mixed differently. Base is much more centered to help prevent skipping tracks. This makes music sound a bit differently. Also, it’s not easy to change track or author, so you usually end up listening to entire side or record. Overall it’s a different experience.
I personally never liked CDs. They never lasted for me. Either the case breaks on the first wrong glance of it or the disk starts flaking or being scratched.
I think the mixing being different is likely dependent upon how good the engineer and mastering engineers are/were. I’d wager a fair number of bands releasing their albums to vinyl these days simply send over a very similar final master (maybe slightly less loud if you are lucky) to the vinyl cutting without much thought, because it’s the hip thing to do.
You are accurate, that they should ensure that low frequencies are mono compatible, but it is likely less of an issue for the style of music most associated with vinyl releases (indi etc), as stylistically they don’t tend to use stereo widening on low frequency instruments. Generally they have kick and bass down the center channel, or I suppose going mono style out of L/R if they are trying to be really old school, but that would likely take a completely different mix adding to production budget as I can’t imagine if would work to well on phones etc, which a lof of music is mix for unfortunately.
None of the artists I produce or mix for have requested it yet, but if they did I would send them to Fuller Sound Mastering as Michael has been around for ages and knows how to handle masters for vinyl.
Vinyl cutting also has an EQ curve offset that is printed into the vinyl itself, cutting the bass and boosting the high frequency, which is then re-applied by the players preamp circuitry, I believe it’s referred to as pre and de-emphasis. Funny enough my mastering DAC actually has this feature for some kind of old early CD technology for some lower resolution digital formats that had issues with noise and filtering and used a similar technology, I had never heard of this until I purchased this particular unit haha.
Only a few more years now till the retro sound of CDs comes back into style. I realize vinyl is a great and unique user experience with a specific timber, and more enjoyable to collect.
It’s kind of funny when you hear about the “analog warmth” when albums were being digitally mastered as early as the late 70s… And pretty much all re-releases are digitally remastered.
I liked the artwork on the disks themselves, and the feeling of opening a box, taking the disk out with that cracking sound, pushing a button on the drive and seeing and hearing it open, and then the sound of spinning when it’s being read.
Every bit as “warm” as vinyl in my opinion (born in 1996, so of course it is).
Your mistake is equivocating digital with analog. There is nothing “retro sounding” about CDs, you can download lossless digital versions of albums that are identical to what you’ll find on a CD.
That’s technically true, but it is entirely possible CDs come back as a retro meat-space alternative to the corporate streaming dystopia we’re headed towards, or using CDs as a secondary retro proxy to feed nostalgia for production mastering trends of the 1990s-2000s era.
They already are! Some young artists are already doing those 2000s nostalgia CD releases for the kicks of having a physical medium.
However a big part of the marketing for vinyl has historically been “the sound is warm/high definition/whatever audiophile bullshit”. Anyone can achieve the same “warmth” with an EQ and some crackle/white noise (it works so well it’s a whole genre called lofi…), but the “vinyl sounds better” crowd will make the unfalsifiable claim that “it’s not the same”.
However, good luck claiming that “CDs sound different from FLACs”!
In the end both vinyl and CD enjoyers are doing the same thing: enjoying music through personal and ritualistic manipulation of physical objects, that also come with nice album art. It’s just that some vinyl enjoyers are attributing some of that enjoyment to a largely made-up supposed “superiority” of sound (yes there are edge cases like “bad” remasters of songs originally released on vinyl, but is that really why anyone buys a turntable? Be honest.).
I’m a professional audio engineer for a living, with a masters in the subject, it was sarcasm lol…
Exactly, although CD isn’t so much “retro” as it is a high frequency, high dynamic range audio recording. The only reason vinyl sounds “warm” is because their dynamic range & frequency is compressed so the needle doesn’t bounce out of its groove.
While it’s possible for a CD to receive a terrible master, if the mastering across formats is the same and other biases are eliminated (i.e. proper A/B testing) then CD will be objectively better sounding every single time.
Retro sound of a CD?
They sound exactly the same as the digital releases. Only audiophiles up there own arses believe that they can hear a difference. Vinyls sound different but for obvious reasons.
I think you missed my sarcasm…
Edited to add: most CDs sound the same as their digital releases (assuming they had the same master which I’ve found isn’t always true), but occasionally you can actually get higher resolution, up to 96k/24 bit, which do sound different depending on your playback device.
Most of the difference is likely due to the nature of the DA filter being applied during playback, as I certainly won’t notice the noise floor between 16-24 bit, and any frequency difference is far far behind my range of hearing.
If you aren’t familiar with what I’m referring too, different DA implementations use varying filtering techniques, some have a slight roll off in the upper frequency range to improve the accuracy of transient response, while others use a flatter frequency response sacrificing the transient. Newer DAs from some manufacturers allow you to select which option you prefer. At double and quad sample rates this can largely become a moot point as any sacrifice to the frequency response is far out of the range of human hearing.
Fair play
Vynil is mixed differently. Base is much more centered to help prevent skipping tracks. This makes music sound a bit differently. Also, it’s not easy to change track or author, so you usually end up listening to entire side or record. Overall it’s a different experience.
I personally never liked CDs. They never lasted for me. Either the case breaks on the first wrong glance of it or the disk starts flaking or being scratched.
I think the mixing being different is likely dependent upon how good the engineer and mastering engineers are/were. I’d wager a fair number of bands releasing their albums to vinyl these days simply send over a very similar final master (maybe slightly less loud if you are lucky) to the vinyl cutting without much thought, because it’s the hip thing to do.
You are accurate, that they should ensure that low frequencies are mono compatible, but it is likely less of an issue for the style of music most associated with vinyl releases (indi etc), as stylistically they don’t tend to use stereo widening on low frequency instruments. Generally they have kick and bass down the center channel, or I suppose going mono style out of L/R if they are trying to be really old school, but that would likely take a completely different mix adding to production budget as I can’t imagine if would work to well on phones etc, which a lof of music is mix for unfortunately.
None of the artists I produce or mix for have requested it yet, but if they did I would send them to Fuller Sound Mastering as Michael has been around for ages and knows how to handle masters for vinyl.
Vinyl cutting also has an EQ curve offset that is printed into the vinyl itself, cutting the bass and boosting the high frequency, which is then re-applied by the players preamp circuitry, I believe it’s referred to as pre and de-emphasis. Funny enough my mastering DAC actually has this feature for some kind of old early CD technology for some lower resolution digital formats that had issues with noise and filtering and used a similar technology, I had never heard of this until I purchased this particular unit haha.
I agree that some cases are brittle but I’ve not seen a disc get fucked since I was a kid, when I couldn’t be bothered to put them back in the case.
CDs are already showing signs of a comeback! https://www.axios.com/2024/01/06/gen-z-cds-buying-collection
Lol, knew it was coming!