• TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    17
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    2 months ago

    Blaming progressives for Harris’ defeat would be good for a “progressive” voting bloc. The only leverage a voting bloc could ever hope to have is a credible threat to withhold a vote. Usually, those on the US “left” are not perceived as credibky threatening to withhold their vote and they can be safely ignored.

    Of course voting is itself limited. If you want to develop political power for the good of humanity you need to do more than think about voting and stay far away from the Democratic Party.

    • Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      It’s irrelevant since the DNC has total control over which candidate percolates to any position. In other words, the DNC ensures that any “threat” is already nipped before voters have any say at all.

      Look at 2016: Debbie Wasserman-Schultz sabotaged Bernie Sanders’ campaign in broad daylight and then flounced directly to the Hillary Clinton campaign to hide under her skirt. Total fucking impunity.

      I’m glad Millennials and younger people are aware of how the machinations really work, but it’s so, so disappointing to realize how many Democrats are really just 90s era Republicans.

        • Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          2 months ago

          President Biden unilaterally removed thet option by refusing to get with the program, either by design or unimpeded ego, until the 11th hour had passed, and VP Harris was in by default.

          Appalled? Yes. We should be.

      • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        2 months ago

        Oh yes, the Democratic Party is an antidemocratic capitalist party that will fight democratization to its death. There is actually an even better example, which is lefties taking over the party in Nevada via their own official process, simply organizing people to jump through the hoops Dems had set up. In response, the Dems defunded the party and built shadow campaigns with the money, then changed its rules so they could remove the lefties.

        At the same time, Americans only understand politics in terms of electoralism. So the fact that they are doing the exact opposite of what a voting block should be doing to establish itself short circuits the pro-genocide “but actually it’s smart to vote blue no matter who” self-defeating logic.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      Blaming progressives for Harris’ defeat would be good for a “progressive” voting bloc

      You are fucking scum. Working full time in other threads to sow discord, working (I believe literal) overtime to get people to vote for a candidate that will directly lead to the deaths of Palestinians as if you give a single shit about them…

      Then here you are giving the fucking game away.

      You’re working overtime to push the one thing that you know will drive a wedge between the Democratic party and progressives.

      You say this is in order to force the Democrats to lose because you think this puts progressives in a better position going forward, but I’m not even sure I believe that.

      You’re trash. Fuck off please.

      Not that it matters. Trump wins, actual progressives will have more important things to worry about such as basic survival

      • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        You are fucking scum.

        Please do your best to engage in good faith and refrain from namecalling.

        Working full time in other threads to sow discord, working (I believe literal) overtime to get people to vote for a candidate that will directly lead to the deaths of Palestinians as if you give a single shit about them…

        Sorry but no I don’t get paid to have opinions against genocide.

        You’re working overtime to push the one thing that you know will drive a wedge between the Democratic party and progressives.

        Democrats doing genocide is what creates the wedge. I am trying to get you to not accept genocide rather than go to the other side and accept it. It is bad to normalize genocide.

        You say this is in order to force the Democrats to lose because you think this puts progressives in a better position going forward, but I’m not even sure I believe that.

        No, it is because I think it is bad for everyone for you and others to normalize genocide. I am simply responding to others’ questions and points when they say things like what it means to get blamed for defeat and so on. I do not think anyone here is being organized or strategic. But they are normalizing genocide.

        You’re trash. Fuck off please.

        Please do your best to avoid namecalling.

        Not that it matters. Trump wins, actual progressives will have more important things to worry about such as basic survival

        I have already organized under several presidents, including Obama, Trump, and Biden. This “Trump sandwich” is revelatory. Of those three, it has been most difficult under Obama and Biden, as well as due to the local policies of Democrats.

        Because I apparently need to explain it, this does not mean I am saying Trump is simply “better” or you should vote for him. Remember, I don’t subscribe to “lesser evil” votes for genociders.

    • grue@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      2 months ago

      Too bad it’s not gonna matter, since if Trump wins, America will only have elections in the same sense that Russia does.

      • Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        I heard this in 2016 as well, and famously, trump was voted out of office the very next election 🤔

        • grue@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          2 months ago

          He attempted a coup to stay in power and very nearly succeeded. He’s trying even harder this time, with many MAGAs having been placed in position to sabotage the election. Fuck your delusional head-in-the-sand dismissal of the danger he poses!

          • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            2 months ago

            and very nearly succeeded

            How can you say this? Do you think that there’s some artifact in the Capitol that grants the power of Legitimate Governance? Do you think a dipshit protest-turned-walking-tour where the cops only saw fit to fire on like one person and only a couple of cops were killed by the rioters is enough to reverse an election in the country that is the global superpower? The country that overthrows governments abroad with much greater violence every few years?

            Is it possible that a couple of politicians would have been beaten to death? Yeah, in a somewhat different world, but the rioters did not begin to approach doing anything in the same dimension as a “successful coup”. There was no connection between what they did and what a group would need to do to take over the country, and imagining there was even anything in the Capitol that could be used for a bit of leverage (like if some pols got caught), that still wouldn’t be a coup and the feds would send SWAT in to blow some brains out.

            It’s just classic American aggrievement politics, the hogs put on a show for you so now it’s “1/6” like it’s a new 9/11 combined with the fucking burning of the White House in 1814. It was never going to amount to anything on the magnitude that you’re asserting, or even several orders of magnitude below it. There is no conflict in which like 6 people die (multiple from rank stupidity) that can connect even notionally to the outcome of overthrowing the most powerful country in the world!

            Well, unless it’s like a judicial coup or some other situation where people are exercising their political power directly, to be fair. But it’s not like Trump was doing the smarter thing and using executive orders to lay the ground for toppling the government, and even then there are so many barriers he’d need to get over that he didn’t even have the cognitive capacity back then to grapple with.

            • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              Well, unless it’s like a judicial coup or some other situation where people are exercising their political power directly, to be fair. But it’s not like Trump was doing the smarter thing and using executive orders to lay the ground for toppling the government

              Sure would be awkward if fascists with more cognitive capacity spent the last 4 years developing and publishing a strategy to do basically exactly that, to take advantage of the record breaking appointment of sympathetic federal judges, including a SCOTUS majority.

              They laughed at the idea of Hitler becoming fuhrer too.

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        That would be improvement so no chance lol. If Trump wins America will only have elections in the same sense that America does.

        Idk how this shit can be called “democracy” even formally, with how population density, massive gerrymandering, elector college, supreme court, disenfranchisement of vast population groups, swing states and differences in states in general influence it. And probably like a million little details i don’t even know, every time i learn a new fact about US “democracy”, any fact, it just point out a new argument why it isn’t a democracy at all.