Do people live without a passport? Cause I dunno, maybe it is how my family ran things in my childhood but everyone of us had a passport as a must. (I’m from a lesser known EU country)
It’s fairly common in the USA to not have a passport
Incredible to think that something like 65% of Americans have NEVER left the country, not even to Canada or Mexico. More impressive, even, is that like 40% have left their home STATE.
I mean, it’s a big country. I assume “Europeans who never left Europe” would be a similar percentage. I’m saying this as someone living in the EU.
How many live paycheck to paycheck
I imagine that’s a large part of it, yes, but how many don’t, and just CHOOSE to stay in like, Oklahoma or something?
Oklahoma sucks so hard it keeps Texas from falling into the Gulf of Mexico.
most people i imagine? How many europeans are born in a country, and just, never leave, move out, go anywhere else. It has to be a statistically significant figure, not as much as america, considering that UK is maybe the size of ONE state. But still.
I think since the introduction of euro and Schengen the percentage of eu-citizens who never been outside their country has dropped close to zero. Also think the percentage of eu-citizens who has never left eu is smaller than us-citizens leaving the us is. States are big yes, but the difference between states is smaller which means it makes less sense to travel ‘abroad’.
why would they, sure you could go visit europe, or india, and a lot of people do that.
America is a huge fucking country. If you want to have interesting travel, there are PLENTY of places you can go within america alone. It’s just not really required. Sure if you want to experience other culture, and what not, you’re going other places, nobody is going to stop you. But you can literally just drive across ALL of america, without a passport, it’s so much easier. And again, there are tons of geographically unique places to visit, there is a substantially significant variety of culture within america itself.
It’s just not really needed.
America is a huge fucking country. If you want to have interesting travel, there are PLENTY of places you can go within america alone.
I would love for this to be the answer for why most Americans don’t travel internationally. The US is massive, and it’s one of the most geographically diverse countries on earth. Just look at this list of ecoregions of the US. Also, damn near every nationality you can think of has made a home here, and they brought their culture with them. There are Congolese enclaves in North Carolina, Somalian enclaves in Minnesota, Cambodian enclaves in California, Indian enclaves in New York, Finnish enclaves in Oregon, French enclaves in Alabama… The list goes on and on. It’s actually insane how much beautiful variation there is here, both geographically and culturally.
Unfortunately, the real reason most Americans don’t travel abroad is far more depressing. The numbers that Dogiedog64 was citing come from a survey conducted by OnePoll, which wound up in this Forbes article.
In fact, survey results showed 76 percent of the respondents wanted to travel more than they do currently. The reasons they gave for why they don’t are what you would expect: mainly due to a lack of finances or just feeling unprepared and ill-equipped to venture forth into unknown territory. More specifically, 63 percent of Americans who have never left the country said an international trip would be out of their price range.
When you consider that nearly 40% of Americans can’t cover an unexpected $400 expense, it starts to make sense that so many Americans don’t travel abroad. It’s heartbreaking that we basically invented “grind culture”, and yet most of us can’t afford the same kind of vacation that a minimum wage worker in Denmark gets.
I mean it’s a very large country with many interesting places, diverse landscapes etc etc, I don’t find it particularly strange to never have left. I wonder how many Europeans have never left Europe, though I guess the cultural differences between countries there is larger than between states in the US.
A lot of people never leave their shithole counties
its to keep them ignorant, most of them tend to be conservatives, the only time they would leave is joining ht emilitary, that is about it. i never been to mexico, but i been to canada on both coasts different times when i was younger. was in china pre-2000.
unlikely, it’s more likely that most americans just don’t really feel the need to go anywhere outside of america, due to how large it is, and how much cultural variance there is within the country. It’s more than any single european country could imagine, more than every west european country could imagine even.
And of the 45% that have, that includes all the heavily right-wing upper class. We’re not sending our best.
Or maybe a psspsspssport?
I just picked up my first passport in my entire life. I’m trying to get away from this hell hole.
it rocks out here, have fun.
Where have you been traveling to? I was thinking euro rail pass and travel Europe.
that’s a great idea, I traveled across Western and Central europe, pretty much all of asia, Australia, India, morocco, I’m in Guatemala right now.
after South America probably I should start on Africa, but the largest inhabited continent is such a massive undertaking that I haven’t got to it yet.
I don’t think Morocco counts, I need that sub-Saharan Safari vibe going on.
Super jelly. That all sounds life changing.
it fucking rocks. shoot me over a message if you ever have any questions, I love talking about this stuff and have helped more than a few people start traveling full time.
Will do!
It’s a good idea to keep a valid passport around no matter if you live in North America or Europe. Doesn’t hurt to be prepared.
Americans are starting to self deport to discover new worlds.
Go get one, it’s only a question of time when you can’t anymore.
And then they’ll stop letting anyone out even if they have one.
That’s why op should get the hell out of there asap.
no it isn’t, but they should get one anyway.
Yes it is for a lot of people. Do you think the system will happily keep working for those it persecutes? This is a mistake a lot of Jews, Democrats, LGBT and others make every time the can’t imagine their country goes fascist, and it always backfires. Right now of those who’re technically eligible for a passport, citizens with migrant origin (or those who “look like it”) as well as trans people are already in danger of not being able to flee anymore. The first are persecuted by ICE, the second are being erased and now they (with Musk at the helm) start framing them as terrorists.
You’re living under a fascist government, act accordingly and do it swiftly.
so interesting to me that the first line of reasoning to this kind of stuff is “fucking leave”
wonder what the stats are on people who would rather stay and fight it out.
“Yes it is for a lot of people”
Yes, changing your question will yield a different answer.
“Do you think the system will happily keep working for those it persecutes?”
it never has, why do you think a system will help the people it is persecuting? persecution is inherently harmful.
"…can’t imagine their country goes fascist, and it always backfires. "
well, guess what, you don’t have to guess anymore. your country is actively going fascist (you sound American).
“You’re living under a fascist government, act accordingly and do it swiftly.”
I am definitively not, and I’ve been helping others get out from under the boot heel for a decade and a half.
You’re talking out your elbow.
as you’re an American, I suppose you pay taxes and support that government that you claim upsets you so?
I don’t.
sounds like you’re the problem.
Am I having a stroke? It looks like you’re debating someone but there isn’t even a difference of opinion
“Am I having a stroke?”
I can’t definitively tell from here, but your typing suggests not.
“It looks like you’re debating someone but there isn’t even a difference of opinion”
there’s a difference of fact, context and “yes” isn’t very close to “no”, but many people in this thread appear as confused as you are, so don’t take your lost footing to heart.
it isn’t good for your stroke anxiety.
Your mode of conversation is quite odd.
I really got into specificity and accuracy lately, which does seem to confuse people.
I think you’ve gotten into being brief or “concise” but it isn’t working, because instead you’re just not explaining your thoughts clearly for others to understand you.
Also in this whole post, you seemed to not understand that OP’s statement about needing a passport is because he is American and needs to be ready to escape as needed. So in this thread, someone said to get it now before it’s too late, but your reply seemed to suggest that OP would always have access. So everyone was trying to explain to you that if he is an American currently targeted for persecution, he might lose that opportunity. Which you seem to agree with. I think everyone was just confused to your point.
“I think you’ve gotten into being brief or “concise” but it isn’t working”
works great for me and other people; brief and concise answers don’t work for you or other people who base their reasoning on assumptions.
you can remedy that by asking for clarification on the things you don’t understand.
“you seemed to not understand that OP’s statement about needing a passport is because he is American and needs to be ready to escape as needed.”
I understood just fine, hence my specifically directed answer.
If you had asked for clarification rather than formulated a conclusion from a false assumption, you wouldn’t be so wrong here.
your key incorrect phrase is a guess: “seemed to not understand…”. this was wrong.
“someone said to get it now before it’s too late, but your reply seemed to suggest that OP would always have access”
again, you are incorrect because you’re drawing a conclusion based on a false assumption(…seemed to suggest…").
My replies didn’t seem to suggest anything, i said very clearly that commenters who were telling him how difficult it was to get a passport were full of shit, because right now it Is very easy to get a passport.
in your head, you apparently pretended that the present tense implied “forever”, which is not what I said or what the present tense implies.
“everyone was trying to explain to you…”
no, some people were as confused as you are and decided to draw incorrect conclusions based on false assumptions rather than ask questions. other people were not as confused or asked clarifying questions.
those people received clarifying answers for the things they didn’t understand.
“you seem to agree with…”
it is a known fact, I don’t know why everyone in the thread expects anyone to disagree with marginalized populations being persecuted.
“I think everyone was just confused to your point.”
many people were confused, yes. but everyone who asked clarifying questions rather than drawing incorrect conclusions based on false assumptions got clarification.
I don’t really care if people get confused by unfamiliar facts, that is the state of people and the world they briefly occupy.
That confusion is fairly easy to solve; easily remedied, willfully refused.
Bwahahaha. Apparently your “accuracy” doesn’t include the wisdom to avoid rhetorical nonsense, for example how not to construct a straw man. I saw similar behaviour with other people before. You’re either a troll or lying to yourself. Either way and with all due respect, you’re full of shit. I take the “you sound American” as a compliment for my English skills though, given it’s not my first language. I’m not American, fortunately.
yes, bwahaha.
boy, I wish whatever orientation class you guys attended that taught you the wrong definition of “straw man” means actually taught you what the phrase “straw man” means instead.
“you’re full of shit.”
nope, That’s another assumption born of frightened ignorance.
“I take the…”
of course you did, your entire answer is based on false assumptions.
“Yes it is for a lot of people”
Yes, changing your question will yield a different answer.
Lol, if you think this was changing the question, no wonder people get “upset” at you for your obsession with “accuracy”.
lol, I don’t mind people getting upset over accuracy.
There are already trans people in that situation.
correct.
Depending on Ops race and gender, maybe
no maybe about it.
deleted by creator
mmhmmm, what about DEI are you curious about?
Better hurry and get it before they make it practically or literally impossible for everyone except the most privileged…
I mean, they basically already have… It cost $165/person for a passport that can go anywhere but Canada and Mexico. Over $600 for a family before you can even go anywhere. For probably 90% of families, that sort of disposable income is a dream when most people can’t afford a $500 emergency expense.
or they force you to serve in the military first to earn a passport. kind of like earning your citizenship in starship troopers.
too old to serve?..didnt ask…
The way they talk about how military service should be required for basic privileges is terrifying as a disabled person. No I didn’t join the military to pay for my education, I was never going to be allowed in even if I wanted to
Some of the better arguments abstract it out to civil service requirements and not just military. I understand the urge to make people ‘prove’ their willingness to work for the betterment of the country before you let them vote, but I don’t think mandatory conscription would actually help.
Required civil service would be a very interesting program. Especially if they used it to build out important infrastructure like national parks that might otherwise be neglected.
I’m remembering one discussion in particular where he used the Civilian Conservation Corps and other work-relief programs during the Great Depression as evidence that it’s perfectly possible for the government to just invent jobs to be done, and especially now that we’re in the digital age, there is zero reason to keep a ‘conscription to vote’ scheme as military only.
People in the military are less likely to disobey corrupt orders as long as they come from the correct chain of command.
Power comes from a politically consolidated military. The larger the military the greater the reigns of power become.
That’d be one incentive for the people in power to force citizens into the military.
Trump’s Golden Passport, only five millions, for a limited time only! Lets you go visa free to beautiful Puerto Rico, Guam, and soon to Canada and Greenland. Other destinations pending.
Order yours now!Conditions may apply.
Don’t forget the Gaza Rivera.
and depending on where you fall on the color chart, potentially sunny Guantanamo Bay.
I don’t think you’ll need a passport to go there though 😬 if anything they’ll burn the one you have…
Good luck getting one right now, they fired everyone who’s not a cop
Edit: I’ve been corrected, passports are going it seems. I wonder how visas are…
Even when they run at full capacity it takes about 30 to 90 days for the paperwork to process.
I applied for a passport on March 1st and it is showing up on the 25th and I know someone else who applied on the same day and got theirs a week or so earlier. It isn’t taking long right now
Not true, my wife and I did our paperwork a few weeks ago and they’re due to arrive this week. Granted we paid for expedited, but they’re moving along.
to get on a boat, that I may or may not need to own, and sail away from here.
cries in transgender
It’s only a matter of time until they stop letting us out
Best to work on your cardio now as well, if you’ve gotta trek to a destination it’s best to have some endurance.
We’ve got big long borders and a lot of it is incredibly undeveloped.
Sometimes you gotta Von Trapp it.
What good would it do? Unless you’re planning to overstay a tourist passport entry and become an illegal in that country?
A passport is one of the most important documents you can have. It has many uses, and is relatively easy to get… at least in my country where we have government efficiency with funding— so we get it in two weeks else it’s free.
That is not relevant to the context, but good for you.
It’s a little relevant to the context, but doesn’t really move the discussion forward- I admit.
I found some sources for you, here’s one:
“The chances of fleeing now were slim. Germany had conquered most of western Europe and its ally Italy was invading France in the south. One of the few escape routes left was the long, eastward one, through the Soviet Union by train. Transportation was costly and official hurdles endless. Travelers needed passports or substitute papers stamped with several kinds of permissions: one for exiting the Soviet Union and others for countries of transit and of final destination. What country would accept Jewish refugees?”
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/flight-and-rescue
I want you to be well prepared, friend 😊
By your own source, those seeking passage required stamps - approval - by the destination country willing to accept them during a time of war. In the context of the OP and my following statement, the assumption is the person would depart to another country without the benefit of the equivalent of “stamps”, approval, or wartime ethno-religious refugee status. Just somebody overstaying a tourist passport stay. So no, not really relevant. That said, I don’t disagree with getting a passport, it might be easier to ask forgiveness in another country should TSHTF in the US, but let’s not kid ourselves on it being a valid method of escape in the current situation.
I’m trying to show how it could be useful for you.
If you consider the risk vs reward of having a passport, it seems like a clear calculation to me. It sounds like we agree then. It’s an extra tool you can have, not the ultimate escape plan. As I say, I believe I am mentioning it for your benefit.
Do you prioritize not having illegal status in another country over your own ability to stay alive and stay safe?
not the only two options, you can legally stay in other countries very easily.
They deport you. Do you have confidence in evading authorities and working menial jobs under the table for a lifetime?
That’s the point.
I don’t think the United States is going to turn into freaking Yemen. It’s not good for your mental health and those surrounding you to start thinking you are actually going to get executed or something like that.
by having a passport you can instantly decrease your cost of living and if you’re a native English speaker, start saving money instantly. there’s great food in other countries and tons to learn, you don’t have to overstay a tourist visa to travel.
that’s the whole point of visas, you legally stay in the country
You are confusing passports and visas.
They are not the same thing.
One is a piece of identification that, if accepted by the destination, allows you temporary entry into the country. That is all.
Visas are very specific for what you are allowed to do, whether it be a student visa, work, or some kind of residency.
I have no idea what you mean by reducing cost of living if your residency is limited and you are paying travel expenses to/from the destination. As far as food goes, yeah, it’s great to experience it, but again no real bearing on the discussion.
“You are confusing passports and visas.”
I’ve been traveling for 15 years, I’m not confusing passports and visas.
“I have no idea what you mean by reducing cost of living”
imagine you have to pay $800 in rent.
that $800 is your cost of living.
imagine that next month you move to a different house that costs $400 in rent.
you move there and now pay $400 per month.
that is a reduced cost of living.
"…travel expenses to/from the destination. "
travel expenses are so low as to be insignificant when compared to the amount of money you save on cost of living while traveling abroad.
I’ve been traveling longer and I travel for a living, not that any of that is relevant considering the differences between the visa and passport are freely available online, yet you handwave that away. You conveniently sidestep travel costs. Maybe they’re easy for you. That’s not the case for many. I can’t believe you skipped past that along with living expenses. There are serious limitations to who can rent/own in some countries, local banks are usually required, asset transfers abroad are limited by the US along with limitations by the destination countries on how much money a foreigner is allowed to hold in an account. Maybe you’re EU where relocation is relatively simple or some other country where CoL is cheap, I can state for a fact that there are plenty of hurdles to relocating from the US to many countries. We are actively exploring it and it is absolutely not as simple as hopping on a plane, renting a flat, and taking in the local cuisine at the cafe on the corner.
if you need any help, I’ve been helping people travel full time for as long as I stated, in stark contrast to your claim of “I’ve been traveling longer” followed by your claim of exploring the options of long-term travel.
unlike you, I have been traveling indefinitely for over a decade and do know what I’m talking about, and I will help you if you want help.
“I’ve been traveling longer”
if you misunderstood my comment enough that you had to look up the difference between passports and visas, then you are certainly not a traveler.
you also said when referring to long-term travel that you are still “exploring it”.
you don’t know what you’re talking about, so don’t make things up.
“You conveniently sidestep travel costs.”
incorrect, I explicitly state that the travel costs are insignificant compared to the savings.
“Maybe they’re easy for you.”
they are easy for most people who care to learn about them.
you clearly do not know anything about travel costs, hence yoir confusion.
you can ask questions instead of trying to attack me without a basic knowledge; it’s not going to work and you’re just going to end up sounding more foolish.
“I can’t believe you handwaved that away along with living expenses.”
that’s because you’re making this about beliefs instead of the facts on the ground.
hostels are $90 a month in Cambodia right now.
what is the cost of your rent and utilities right now?
“There are serious limitations to who can rent/own in some countries”
incorrect us to rent, but if you want to buy a house, don’t buy one in those six countries, there are 200 other countries.
“local banks are requires, asset transfers abroad are limited…”
none of this is correct for what I’ve talked about so far, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
“by the destination countries on how much money a foreigner is allowed to hold in an account.”
all of your concerns are marginal cases that I haven’t explained yet.
nonetheless, you are wrong about all of them so far.
most countries do not limit how much money you can have abroad.
“can state for a fact that there are plenty of hurdles to relocating from the US to many countries.”
no you cannot, because the facts defy your anxieties.
I’ve been traveling like this a long time, helping other people travel like this, it’s very doable and in every case I’ve come across, easier than their life was in the states.
and again, the facts prove you wrong on their face.
US citizens can travel coun Lisa free or with visa on arrival to 186 countries.
"We are actively exploring it and it is absolutely not as simple as hopping on a plane, renting a flat, and taking in the local cuisine at the cafe on the corner. "
again, you are wrong. it is exactly that easy to start traveling, from the states especially.
if you have a passport, you can sell all of your things, jump on a plane, and start living abroad indefinitely tomorrow.
you don’t have to, no one’s going to make you, but for nearly every native-english speaking American or anyone making more than 500 USD per month remotely, that is an option.
I didn’t post the differences between passport and visa for your benefit. I posted it to encourage others to look for themselves. Differences you haven’t explained yet? Why the fuck are you wasting my time when in three separate posts you choose to “nuh uh bro” me and not explain shit. Useless.
I don’t know what to do with your ridiculous views. The facts surrounding immigration and employment in desirable countries is freely available and plainly place plenty of restrictions and barriers to meaningful long-term residency. It’s designed to be hard.
You keep posting your personal views with zero references.
But mostly, If immigration, residency, and employment in foreign countries was cheap and easy like you say everyone would fucking be doing it all the time, not just desperate boat people with nothing to lose.
I’m done with you.
“I didn’t post the differences between passport and visa for your benefit.”
Would have been foolish to.
"…three separate posts you choose to “nuh uh bro” me and not explain shit. "
I’m very specifically correcting your errors with real-time verifiable data. Which numbers or words don’t you understand?
“I don’t know what to do with your ridiculous views.”
Those are the facts, Jack.
“The facts surrounding immigration and employment in desirable countries is freely available and plainly place plenty of restrictions and barriers to meaningful long-term residency”
Long for a non-sequitir.
“It’s designed to be hard.”
Well, it isn’t.
“But mostly, If immigration, residency, and employment in foreign countries was cheap and easy like you say…”
didn’t say that.
You’re making things up and drawing false conclusions from your make-believies.
It’s very easy to travel indefinitely and save money immediately doing it for native English speakers.
Try to sound out the words when you read them, it’ll help.
'…everyone would fucking be doing it all the time"
the brave and smart ones are. Not to toot, but toot toot.
“I’m done with you.”
You did get wrecked, slow learner but wise to quit while you’re behind.
idk, maybe hold onto it and hopefully not use it (?)
wow, the comments went really somewhere.
By the time you realize you need to have a passport, you should have already gotten one. I got my first passport in 2000. It took like a week. I lost it and had to get a new one in 2007. I got grilled by Homeland Security in a windowless office about whether or not I was familiar with the terrorist cells in the country I was vacationing in because it was a country with a significant Muslim population. I can’t imagine what it’s like now.
Sign up for some exchange program in a neutral country, buy a round-trip ticket, and just never come back.
I renewed a year or two ago and it was no big deal (US passport but longtime Japan resident) and took like 3 weeks. I think part of it was by mail, even, though I can’t recall for sure (I think I submitted in person and received by mail? Now that I live hours away from Tokyo, I certainly hope that’s an option in 8ish years).
it might be harder for people more than 15years expired, very inconvienient.
I renewed my US passport about 6 months ago. I was eligible to renew online. Cost around $130 if I remember correctly. The online process was actually really easy and it came in the mail only a few weeks later (2-3 weeks). Highly recommend renewing online if you meet the eligibility requirements.
This ☝️. You don’t even have to go to the store to get a passport picture taken if it’s a renewal, take a pic of yourself using their guidelines. Tripod or have someone take it for you. Send that in. 2-3 weeks it’s at your door.
