Slightly OT, but this is also why we absolutely need ranked voting ASAP. How much better would a candidate like Sanders do if people knew that voting for him as first choice and Biden as second was possible?
Yes, voting for the lesser evil on its own is not enough.
If you have more resources, you should be organizing in other ways. Spread information. Building other power structures. And voting for the lesser evil.
If you don’t have resources to spare, just vote for the lesser evil. It will give the people who are able to change the system more time. At the vary least, it might give some people a couple more days to enjoy life.
Just because something won’t solve the problem doesn’t mean it doesn’t help.
Don’t give up! They want you to give up and roll over. They might get what they want. I can’t predict the future. But let’s win, or make them work for it. Don’t just give them what they want.
Building alternative power structures, mutual aid networks, and unionizing are precisely the things people should be focusing on. People should study at what labour organization looked like at the start of the 20th century to see what real political leverage looks like. Voting on its own doesn’t accomplish much of anything, and as the study shows the end up getting their way vast majority of the time.
You know what helps as far as voting goes? Not voting for the entrched parties. Every vote they get, keeps their position more secure. Do other stuff. But when it comes to voting do not give them ANY support. Best is voting for someone closest to your ideals, second best is not voting, actively detrimental is voting either R or D.
In a first passed the post voting system, there will always be only two candidates that matter. 3rd party candidates do exist but every vote you give to them instead of the lesser evil ultimately removes a vote against the grater evil.
This is basic voting strategy. It sucks that the system works this way, but reality sucks sometimes.
Voting 3rd party to “show them” is waisting your power and playing into the desires of the current power structures. With the little power we have been given by the system, we should be using it to maximize our desired outcomes.
The best we can do in the US currently though voting for a president is to slow the decay and allow other initiatives more time to work and give more people a chance to wake up before this power is removed from us.
If you want more details CPG Grey does an excellent video on how this happens called Minority Rule: First Past the Post Voting https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=agab-WYAn5Ro5Gs2
The current power structures LOVE first past the post because it means fools like you will unconditionally support them no matter what they do. If you use the only power you have at the voting booth to support the status quo, things will never ever change. Stop lying to yourself.
I never said those things. You should probably re-read my post. As I said, voting will only slow the decay. It won’t “fix” anything.
Voting for the party of Capital will not slow decay, stop lying to yourself.
Oh, I’m sure they would still hold elections. But your options would be even more limited. “Sorry, but the other parties just didn’t run any candidates for this election. Imagine that.”
News Flash: We are already there in a lot of districts and the entrenched Capitalist parties like it that way. Maybe stop voting for them? It’s the least you can do.
Weird, I was sold almost the exact same line in 2020.
Did something change since 2020?
It’s almost like the same totalitarian is running on the GOP ticket.
It’s almost like he already won in 2016 and lo and behold, we can still vote again 4 years later.
It wasn’t for lack of him trying though
This is so dumb. He didn’t try to not let people vote. Every loser every year claims recounts are needed, they just usually don’t use the system to try and prove it. He’s using the system to try and prove it. The system is there for a reason
Stop trying to claim he’s stopping people from voting.
He claimed 3 million illegal votes during an election he won. 3 million… then what did he do once becoming president after an accusation of the largest voter fraud claim for a democracy in history? Nothing. Barely mentioned it. No enormous investigation to arrest the thousands of people that would have needed to be involved to coordinate 3 million illegal votes. Nothing. Why? Because it was just something for him to say off the cuff. He took a page from his hero Roy Cohn to just declare victory even when defeated. Lose a case? Just claim victory. Lose a popular vote count? Just claim victory. He has done it all his life and doesn’t care how easily it is for some people to believe his off-the-cuff lies even when they can threaten democracy itself. He will never concede a loss and doesn’t care who it hurts. He will also never have the evidence for his claims because he doesn’t need any.
Really? Can you cite this? The Internet was around then. Should be easy to find an equivalent quote like, say, Cheney’s.
More like “It doesn’t matter how you vote, the evil party is going to win because the slightly-less-evil party just lost a large chunk of their voter base because funding a ethnic genocide in the middle east was a hill they were dying on”
Do your part by voting for the slightly less shit party, but don’t be surprised when it happens anyway, they’re counting on it. They want it. Whenever they need to do something evil they can just throw the election so the republicans can take the hit for them, just like every time.
STOP VOTING FOR GENOCIDE YOU FUCKING GHOUL. It’s not hard.
Situation sucks. But, with Cheeto chimp it’ll suck 1000X more.
Don’t be complacent. Don’t be apathetic.
Tell the DNC to pick a candidate worth voting for. Esp one not beholden to the MIC like Trump and Biden.
Fuck off with your astroturfing unproductive non-takes. Biden is perfectly viable. Beholden to the mic? You think that’s the biggest issue this election cycle?
You’re the one picking the old ass man. AstroTurf my ass.
Biden isn’t viable, he’s aiding in a genocide as we speak! And he is blatantly disregarding the wishes of the American people to do so.
This is what your attitude will bring into fruition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
I wonder if you’re a member of one of the minorities who will end up second-class citizens, if citizens at all, if they achieve their goals.
The astroturfing on this thread is insane.
That’s where youre wrong. There are more than 2 parties. The 2 party system is atrocious.
There are only two parties that have a mathematical chance of winning. You can throw your vote away on a third party, hoping to get them 20x their highest ever turn-out in the hopes that they get more money if you want. But know that what you are actually doing is indistinguishable from simply not voting. Work on getting ranked-choice voting in your state first, then vote your conscience. Voting third party now just guarantees another 4+ years of Trump.
Gaslighting people into thinking there are only 2 viable options is the reason why we’re in this mess. Just saying.
It’s literally a mathematical certainty. Every single Democrat would have to vote against Joe Biden for a third party, or else the vote would be split, and we’d guarantee a Trump win.
I don’t know, I’m sure there’s plenty of people on the right that don’t like either candidate, and would probably vote for 3rd party if people would stop this nonsense that there are only 2 parties.
Any third-party run that pulls from both parties is gonna end up being an “enlightened centrist” group like No Labels and we’ll get more of the exact same.
The majority of people do not hold extreme left or extreme right views. While the majority of democratic and republican candidatesaree trying to match up to the extremes of their parties, and you get the same results and nothing done. Why not have common sense take a shot at running things?
Get fucked and run a better candidate, Dems. When they don’t they will be the only group responsible for the election of trump.
No, it’ll also be the fault of idiots like you who think you get the privilege of voting for someone you really like instead of just getting to pick the least bad option. You have the chance to vote to keep trans people safe for another 4 years, to keep abortion legal on the federal level for the next four years, etc. You choosing not to do that in the desperate bid to feel like your hands are clean will directly result in harm to those around you. Your hands will be dirty either way.
Isn’t the “privilege of voting for someone you like” called “your right to vote”?
You think my right to vote is a privilege?
But sure, according to this meme voting democrat is the only way to protect voting rights which don’t exist and are a privilege
I won’t be moralistically scolded into voting for the moderate wing of fascism.Right, you’ll instead be convinced to feel morally superior while supporting (by not voting against) the non-moderate wing of fascism. Won’t you just feel so clean and superior while Trump harms the people you want to protect?
It’s privileged to think that you have an inherent right to vote for someone who aligns with all your values. You vote for the person who has the best chance of winning who aligns most closely with your values. You vote for the person who has the best chance of stopping the fascist from winning.You have to be strategic with your vote as long as our system is FPTP. Or you can tacitly support the fascists while claiming to be morally superior by not voting.
“It’s privileged to think that you have an inherent right to vote”
There it is again
“You vote for the person who has the best chance of stopping the fascist from winning.”
But you are a fascist. You don’t support my right to vote. You support Joe Biden, who is continuing to build the wall, has not stopped putting kids in cages in concentration camps, is funding a genocide in Gaza, sat idly by while abortion rights got overturned instead of codifying Roe, and on and on and on. Every metric libs used to call Trump a fascist applies to Joe Biden. It’s so boring.
“while supporting (by not voting against)”
Hang on, if I don’t vote Trump that means I’m not voting against Biden. By your logic that means I am effectively supporting Joe Biden. So we’re good then, I did what you want. Lmao, it never gets old how moronic democrats are. Endless free entertainment.
As a Canadian looking from the outside in, it really does seem to be trending in that direction… any further Republican wins will mean the end of democracy, with America sliding into a ChristoFascist Autocracy.
I fear for my American neighbours, but we have similar problems up here; we just happen to be a decade or so behind you folk.
A republican win does not mean the end of democracy, just like it didn’t last time.
It actually potentially does. I’d suggest looking into Project 2025. If you’re not familiar with it, it’s a political battle plan being put forward by a bunch of hard-right think tanks with substantial connections which would effectively establish a theocracy in the US. My understanding is that part of the plan hinges on the president basically removing anyone who can stop him and replace them with sycophants (which they’re currently populating a list of). The idea is that if they’re able to remove enough people, they can do whatever they want. They don’t need a majority in the supreme court or house of representatives because they can just ignore them; the sycophants will follow whatever orders they’re given regardless of what the house or court says.
To put it another way, they’ve realized the house and scotus only have power if that power is respected; if they remove anyone in-between the president and the other branches who’d say “no” and replace them with yes-men, then there’s no one to stop the president from doing whatever he wants. That said, I’d be willing to bet the moment the president says “no” to the scotus is the moment they’ll make a show of how much power they truly have, but it’ll get really bloody if that happens.
You know Lincoln told the supreme court to fuck off right? Was he “dictator” was it the end of democracy? Were people like you reading bathroom scrawling and screeching about project 1862?
Just because it’s true doesn’t mean it isn’t bullshit. We’re fucked.
As we all know, politics only happens when you vote for president every 4 years.
This is the only argument left for Democrats.
I’m writing in Hamas in 2024
Hmmm… I think I’ll go for the second this time around.
I’d also vote for DeSantis or Ramaswami this election. I refuse to vote for Biden (or whoever is calling the shots behind him), or Harris, or Newsom.
Seriously, how is it possible that my own party can’t get their shit together and find an actually likable candidate that can at least convince me they might be doing it for my own interests?
So now you vote for the other party that’s even worse at what you criticise? Did I get this right?
Yes, now I vote for the other party. I’m burnt out on mine.
Never voting again sounds good to me, since that way people would realize how pointless it is. Unfortunately neither option will lead to that outcome and people will pat themselves on the back after voting for the Capitalist party.
Ah yes, not participating. The way to change the system is to not participate. All we have to do is let the republicans win, so they can make being gay illegal, abolish no-fault divorce, and re-introduce christian indoctrination in the classroom. Then everyone will finally realize it’s all stupid and they’ll release all the gay criminals and atheist teachers from jail and say “Sorry! Thanks for not voting, now we realize both parties were the problem!”
You would probably still vote but there would only be one party to vote for. Voting might become mandatory too
The Capitalist party is who you will be voting for, so materially what is the difference?
We’d be voting for the Nazi party, silly. Any other party would be declared a terrorist organization and all members would be arrested or worse.
Oh that sounds terrible. So we should vote for a party who doesn’t agree with, doesn’t support, and doesn’t call those people friends while they hangout at the same fund raising parties right?
Right now the options are limited. Neither are good but one is terrible and dangerous for the U.S. and the world.
We literally do not live in a democracy according to a bunch of empirical studies, and also according to basic material analysis.
The opinion of the masses is never reflected in our government.
Does your politics begin and end at participating in sham elections? Why aren’t you encouraging people to take meaningful political action?
Imagine being Russian and the extent of your political activism is encouraging people to vote Putin out.
That’s how ridiculous you are.
What meaningful political action do you propose?
We literally do not live in a democracy according to a bunch of empirical studies, and also according to basic material analysis.
As far as I know, there is one study, and even that is under dispute on secondary analysis of the underlying data.
Okay, now analyze how public opinion is formed and who owns the mechanisms that form it
Still a democracy though.
If the bourgeoisie decide elections through lobbying and media it isnt a democracy in a meaningful sense.
They don’t exactly decide, they influence the decision. Why don’t you votee that for their goals?
They don’t exactly decide, they influence the decision.
“The didn’t do that, they just did something that will predictably result in that”
Once upon a time that would have been a simple answer, given the concentrated ownership of news that could reach any one person. But now with the Internet, there is less and less control by any one group. Certainly the age of the rich effectively controlling the media is over.
But now with the Internet, there is less and less control by any one group. Certainly the age of the rich effectively controlling the media is over.
Pr teams have successfully learned how to use social media, and social media giants promote views that are beneficial to them like fascism while suppressing left wing content.
I dont think the internet existing makes us a democracy, the parasocial nature of a lot of internet content actually makes it so people are more able to sell their propaganda.
There is plenty of media that exists outside of media giants. Case in point, there is a local blogger here in Portland, OR that runs bikeportland.org to cover bikes and related subjects. His blog posts and discussions on them are a major part of the local discourse around infrastructure in Portland. He’s not rich, but he exercises influence.
Okay, but you do see how thats pretty boutique compared to the local news channels, let alone the giants, right?
Small things are allowed to exist that oppose the dominant ideology until they meaningfully threaten it.
Any grassroots media is going to be “boutique”. That doesn’t make it not influential, especially when considered as a whole.
You have a laughably erroneous perspective on the matter. This isn’t Russia my guy.
You do realize your comment is just “You’re wrong!” with more flowery language right?
We live in a republic democracy which, yes, differs from an outright democracy.
We do not live in a republic democracy, we live in a republic dictatorship of capital.
