Societal collapse, eh? Sounds like a great opportunity for profit!!!
Imagine how much ACs we could sell! And how expensive we could make food!
I really have to slow down on Armored Core, I thought you were talking about selling everyone mechs for a minute
I like that idea for our timeline better.
We’re moving back to office until we can’t move at all.
a bit late for that when society is turning to fascism all over the world.
Good ol’ fascism! You can always count on fascism to to help people. Well, the right people. I mean, some of the right people, maybe a small subset of the right people.
An ever increasingly small subset of the right people because Fascism requires there to ALWAYS be an other to blame it on.
Fascism saved my buddy’s life in 'Nam, maaaaan.
That’s unfortunate because I have been trying really hard to participate in society.
People think it’s gonna be fun, like Zombieland. Instead, it’s going to be fun, like The Road.
I’d say the ones who have been saying it’s not real should be the first to become soylent green
:shocked-picachu:
What a time to be alive!
gestures broadly
🤨
We didn’t start the fire…
Scientists. Experts. Covid. Elon.
Spam!
Good, I’d rather it all burn than to be looked down upon by the Trumpler in the Ivory Tower
Wow, yeah if only we had some alternative to Trump.
We do, but for some fucking reason a ton of people think not voting for her will magically save Palestine from Nethanyu. I voted for Harris, everyone else needs to do the same fucking thing.
If only she could do something to change the mind of those “tons of people”.
Trump ALSO wants to destroy Palestine, you must understand that there is no option here that helps Palestine, there is merely one option that can help America. I’d like a perfect solution but there isn’t one
Oh there is one, Kamala could just not continue on the same path re: Israel as previous people in power. It’s a simple change that gets her a lot of votes. But oh no, Trump bad, vote Harris, that’s the only compromise people like you seem to offer.
I’m not offering a compromise, I can’t make Harris do anything. If you think I’m some kind of wizard who can wave her hand and suddenly make Harris put Nethanyu on blast as she sends in the calvary to start rebuilding Palestine, then I got a bridge to sell ya.
I’m merely point out that we have two options.
We let Trump get elected, he deploys nuclear weapons in Palestine because he’s an idiot who keeps demanding to know why we aren’t doing that already ( https://patch.com/us/across-america/donald-trump-reportedly-asked-adviser-nuclear-weapons-if-we-have-them-why-we-can-t ) and starts rounding up vulnerable Americans in camps because he likes Hitler. We try to protest both, he deploys the national guard.
We get Harris elected, the threat of Trump is gone forever because he’s not going to even live long enough to try this shit again in 2028, we still have the freedom to protest, she doesn’t make things any worse for Palestine than they already are under the Biden administration, and we can still focus on trying to push the country leftward with the whole “Not having to fight for our lives” conditions a Harris presidency brings that the alternative does not.
Under the former, we can’t do shit to help Palestine because we’ll have our own problems, under the latter there’s still a fight.
I’m not meekly saying “But Trump…”, I’m merely being realistic in what the landscape looks like under each presidency.
Palestine isn’t gonna have a good time under either President this is true, but one of those is clearly worse than the other for not only that region, but our region. You must understand that.
If you really want to stand there and pitch a fit because you can’t have your cake and eat it too, congratulations, you’re going to get us all killed.
PS: “We could all vote Third Party.” - ELECTORAL COLLEGES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
“Electoral Colleges are inhumane, undemocratic, and we need ranked choice voting.” - True, but it doesn’t change the fact that our current system is an Electoral College and Republicans are the reason that’s not going to change anytime soon.
Buddy, buddy. The entire thing is really simple. Trump doesn’t need the votes from pro Palestinian people. He probably wouldn’t get them anyways. Harris needs those votes. So either she changes course, or she loses an election. People who see Palestine as an important issue aren’t going to vote for someone because they are “better” but still supporting genocide. They’ll vote based on other issues, or won’t vote at all. It’s not the job of the voters to get a specific party votes - it’s the exact opposite. They are getting elected for the people - not for themselves. So do what people want or lose.
We can’t even figure out how to not have half our society be rasict, how the hell are we gonna save a whole planet from our fuckery?
We cant even figure out how to make recycling work.
Recycling was never supposed to work alone. It was literally the last ditch effort after Reduce and Reuse.
Also, we already figured out how to make it work, but it isn’t profitable when it works, so obviously we have to use the less effective methods so that a small handful of big wigs can milk the process for personal gain.
We could but it’s not profitable enough for corporations.
We do what the British did with Australia, but with mars.
Send Elon and all the maga weirdos to the red place and we can begin following the plot of the expanse.
Like it should be.
good people have to do bad things to make way for the next generation of good people to do good things. no one has yet to convince me otherwise. we need a reset.
We’re not gonna be able to combat climate change under capitalism anyway. The number one thing we need to do is to produce less but that goes directly against what capitalism needs to function. Not to mention that governments are bribed by companies to make laws in their favour.
But hey, what’s the point of saving our planet anyway if we can’t maximize profits anymore?
a unified, coordinated population of citizens could make big change if we wanted to. there are certainly villains, but we’re all somewhat to blame.
Yep. And if you mention this, you’re a commie and capitalism is the greatest thing ever and under socialism we will all starve and have nothing and it never worked look at Cuba.
Like capitalism works, and there are no imaginable alternatives.
Just don’t use resources to produce that much useless crap to just dump it in a landfill or burn it? Is it so hard to understand?
Damn right I’m a commie.
It’s working great in cuba. Best health care in the world too.
The problems in Cuba are all tied directly to us sanctioning them to try and destroy their economy
Bold of you to assume that most people even want that. From what I can tell…
There are a large number of people out there who seem to be deliberately making it worse - not even for profit, but just out of spite.
Tbf, I think a certain minimum amount of intelligence is required to even qualify for that statement, which I suspect disqualifies most… but yeah, underneath that, there do seem to be a few, like Jeff Bezos.
Though Donald Trump himself I see more like a monkey doing its thing, as much a symptom as a feed-forward cause of his own. I ain’t saying that he’s not “evil” in his own way, just that he lacks sufficient character for his brand of it to have had any effect at all, if it weren’t for the fact that the systems were so broken to begin with. Money (his father’s in his case) corrupts.
We don’t and we won’t.
Humanity is fucked. My sympathy lies with the animals.
They’ll be fine 100 years after we’re extinct.
they’ll be extinct too. the conditions we’re creating affect all living creatures. letting this go on is the definition of insanity. i truly don’t understand why we, the common citizens aren’t doing whatever it takes to remove those in power who refuse to do anything about it.
Because most of us are relatively comfy and we’re so focused on surviving the day, week, or month (if you’re really lucky), that we don’t have time to even consider the effort needed to organize and focus on overthrowing those in power. The system working as designed.
all the more reason to get off the hamster wheel. you can live your whole life struggling and wishing and wondering on your death bed what it was all for or you can be the generation that saved the world.
but you do you.
Or instead of saving the world you and your group fail, your group is now considered terrorists, and the knee jerk reaction of those in power removes more of the people’s freedoms and oppresses them more, all in an effort to ensure that little uprising doesn’t happen again.
I agree something needs to be done, but it’ll have to be done with elections and legislation that protects that progress from being dismantled by the next party that might not agree with that change.
Sustainable change is a slow process. Sometimes that process is so slow you might not see the results in your lifetime.
Sustainable change is a slow process. Sometimes that process is so slow you might not see the results in your lifetime.
well since this isn’t a time sensitive issue, i guess i should just learn to be patient /s
Let me introduce you the crown of creation: the cockroach.
every living thing is unique. every species is a marvel of evolutionary engineering. i find your answer appalling and unsympathetic to life. i sincerely hope you are just young and haven’t come to appreciate this irreplaceable beautiful orb that we live on yet.
Interesting, I just meant that cockroaches are nearly indestructible and will survive humanity. But I do agree with your first sentence.
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I sympathize with the children that had nothing to do with it.
It’s why I’m not having kids.
So you won’t feel guilty for not fighting for a better world?
That is such a needlessly abusive thing to say to a person.
Choosing not to have a child because you don’t believe the problems you’d be subjecting them to are likely to be solved is a heavy choice to make, and says nothing about whether they’re fighting climate change to whatever extent they’re able
Please don’t go around being a complete asshole for no reason. The space we have here in the fediverse is only as nice as we make it, and assuming the worst of people we’ve literally never met accomplishes less than nothing.
This was not an abusive statement, and I’m sorry if you feel that it was. I don’t believe that choosing not to have children because of climate change was made with a lot of deliberation, but because it’s the laziest choice. Children are tough. Fighting for change is tough. Convincing other to give a fuck about the environment is tough. It’s easier just to keep on keeping on and when the world breaks at least I didn’t create another soul who is going to go through pain.
This attitude doesn’t help fix the current situation and I believe that the apathy such a decision makes encourages people to be inactive on climate change.
Not having children is one of the easiest ways to contribute to solving climate change, which is exactly why we should encourage it regardless of whether the person is also taking other steps to solve it (which we don’t know). Not having a child also saves 58 tons of CO2 emissions per year, so it’s one of the most effective things you can do to fight climate change too, so that simple action does a lot to fight for a better world.
Source: https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children
You don’t know this person. And you don’t know anything about what they’re doing to combat climate change, or are capable of doing to contribute to combating climate change.
You don’t even know whether this was the only consideration in choosing not to have kids.
You know nothing about them, but the way your comment reads suggests that you’re essentially insinuating that their choice to not have kids is illegitimate by nature of the motives you presume they have (which isn’t a kind thing to do) and also that they’ve made that choice out of laziness. All based on assumptions you’ve made from the single sentence comment they left on a Lemmy thread.
It’s possible that was intended as a sincere question, but it reads as SUCH a heavily loaded question that it will be understood to be an accusation by pretty much anyone who reads it, which is why I call it abusive. And you can tell that that’s what it’s communicating by the fact that my comment saying as much has been upvoted repeatedly in the short period it’s been up. The question mark reads as rhetorical, and even if you meant to ask in order to get them to reflect, it’s unlikely you know them well enough or expressed that intention well enough for it to not just read as someone being a jerk on the internet
I can absolutely empathize with the idea that it is easier to check out and want to live small than to fight. And I can certainly understand wanting to fight back when you perceive that others are doing that, because our future is all on the line. I just left a long comment about it on another thread where I shared some quotes I found validating or poinant with respect to my struggle to keep fighting for things bigger than myself when I can barely function.
I get that it’s important for people to fight, but what you said to them kinda sucks, and isn’t a good way to engage with someone you don’t know at all.
Edit: adjusted to reflect the fact I also made assumptions in the initial version of this comment. Apologies if parts feel out of sync, I’m editing this while fairly sleep deprived.
You’re a good person who seems able to see both points of an argument. Thank you. You’re right, I don’t know the person who said they wouldn’t have children. They had a quick quip and I had a quick quip too and didn’t really want to get into my argument.
Comments like “That’s why I’m not having children” get positive upvote and attention, but it could have been “And that’s why I’m ready to fight for climate change so that there’s a future for humanity”. To me it is a statement of surrender and being proud of essentially waiting for the end of the world, which tells me a bit more about the person making the statement.
Anyway, I didn’t realize my initial comment would come off that negatively and I’ll try to be more respectful.
it’s actually one of the best things any one of us can do. you fuckin breeders, i swear to god…
Not having children is obviously not a societal change that everybody can do, otherwise humanity would fail. I’m not saying everybody should be having 10 children, but there’s nothing wrong with having a couple.
The point I’ve been trying to make is that I’m worried that people who see that not having children is the easiest thing you can do to lower your carbon footprint will not care about doing anything else to help save the planet. You’ve done your part, so why not drive that gas guzzler for a little longer. Probably not gonna hurt you too much. I think more people will think this way than people who responsibly have children and have a physical reminder of why they’re trying to care about the future.
And thanks for labelling me in an out group. Be careful, you’re probably very suseptible to extremism.
You’re a moron if you think bringing more people into the world is fighting for a better world
That’s all of us unless you’re an executive in a multinational corp, or work for the oil and gas industry.
We’ve all been ramrodded into this reality by a handful of giant Corporations, over the last 100 years.
time to make them pay. even if it doesn’t solve anything. fuck them.
Yeah I agree. But I could have chosen more fuel efficient cars when I was younger. Bought less shit I didn’t need. I could’ve done more. Yeah it’s not entirely my fault, we’ve been thrown into the gauntlet, what can you do if you wanna live? But the children born now, or God forbid even later are going to find themselves in a hellscape of an economy and ecosystem. And my heart goes out to them because they’ll get less than I had, less freedom, less upward mobility, less drinkable water, less food, less breathable air, and be more fucked by everything. The longer we push it, the worse it gets for the people who had less to do with it.
If it helps to assuage your guilt at all, we have been living, inundated with corporate propaganda, for all our lives.
“Carbon footprint” is a great example; it’s a Corporate guilt trip.
Oh absolutely. The carbon footprint was bullshit from the oil companies to put the onus on individuals to fix it while not giving people any options. It was all bullshit. That being said, I do have some guilt. Or at least feel it. Less because I was making bad decisions and more of a “survivors guilt” kind of thing. That’s not the right term, cause I’m going to die before the younger generations. But I feel guilt just because my child and millions of others will get a worse and worse end of the stick than I got just because of when they were born. This is why I argue with boomers about the difference between generations.
Like, you had the American dream fucking handed to you. Do you not feel some kind of guilt for getting a degree for $8k, a house for $35k, and a top of the line vette costing $4.5k? Even at the lower rates of pay, that’s a fraction of the budget compared to today. If I had it that easy, I would absolutely feel bad for people coming up behind me. And yet, VERY few boomers acknowledge this, and that is why I’m so hostile to them.
Respectfully, carbon footprint as a measure is just a measurement and is really useful in the right context. It’s important to remember that it’s the misapplication to individuals that is a con game.
When Rees and Wackernagel came up with ecological footprint as a measure, it introduced a systems analysis to human activity that we really needed. Carbon footprint is just a subset of that and ignoring it is futile. Just apply the analysis where it matters: militaries, mining, transport, energy, civil engineering, etc etc.
“Generation Me” will never cop to their culpability. They’re narcissists, ie to admit being wrong now would absolutely crumple their sense of identity. And we all know Boomers #1 rule is looking out for numero uno.
I’m not saying all Boomers are Captain Planet villains…but all Captain Planet villains were definitely Boomers.
all Captain Planet villains were definitely Boomers
only because the younger sociopaths haven’t been able to take the reins of power. trust me, being a piece of shit is not a generational thing. it’s a learned thing (possibly genetic), and the only way to unlearn it is to reset society.
Animals are fucked! We decimated 75% of wildlife in 50 years, and it is still growing
growing
Dwindling?
You understood me, the extinct part is growing
Gotcha
If only we’d only “decimated” wildlife. Alas.
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societal collapse
Ah yes, that thing that has us laboring to chase meaningless plastic crap we’re brainwashed into needing instead of growing our own food and maintaining our own shelters as small, purposeful communities, all so the owners of this society can siphon our energy while poisoning the earth, all to live like wannabe gods above us.
No more penis Space tourist rockets? What a loss…
I dont think you would like what comes after societal collapse. It’s easy to pin society as just capitalism, but collapse will mean more than just the economic system. Democracies will collapse and entire regions will cease to exist. Food scarcity and mass migration will result in extreme regimes that will defend their territory, and a bunch of nomads who have to live with the constant worry of where the next food and freshwater source is. Not to mention the constant fighting over geopolitical issues (imagine current day scaled up exponentially)
Yes, we should fix our economic system, but societal collapse is not an end result we ever want.
Suffering I fear, death I welcome.
I know, we all weep for our poor capitalist lords :c
/s
