RBG, Feinstein, now Biden. Selfish geriatric boomers should learn when to retire.
I don’t like Joe Biden, I’ll never forget the Neoliberal bullshit he did with the Republicans in the 90s we are still suffering from further eviscerating the safetynet to the draconian war on people suffering addiction. He’s one of the OG former opposition party members the Reagan Revolution convinced to take the bigger bribe checks from Wall Street than Unions could ever match, today’s neoliberal(D) party.
That said, I voted for him in the last election, and I will again out of harm reduction. He has improved on policy, but l even if he didn’t, the American people do not get a vote on whether or not to elect a senile President this cycle.
You can have any President you like, as long as he’s senile. If you vote, we’ll get a senile President. If you don’t, we’ll get a senile President.
The question is whether you want senile and gleefully cruel®, or just senile(D). I’ll take just senile.
the American people do not get a vote on whether or not to elect a senile President this cycle
I feel like I’ve somehow become trapped in some kind of simulation or thought experiment where the purpose of it is to make lesser evilism seem as ridiculous as conceivably possible, and every time I think it’s peaked with just comical levels of absurdity, it somehow manages to escalate.
Except you do get to vote for no senility. That is what the primaries were for. Trump was actually struggling quite a bit against a young woman.
As was Biden for a hot second against a younger candidate. That was short lived. Biden was also getting a bit of a slap by a few people who were not on board for having Biden run the party again.
This is why you don’t sleep through the primaries and complain you only get the only one vote on parties.
2016 proved that wasn’t true. The DNC pushed the candidate they wanted, and the guy who kept being up or near Hillary just got ignored by the press so most people barely ever saw him. You don’t get to pick anything in the primaries. The two parties in charge tell you who you get to have.
You can have any President you like, as long as he’s senile. If you vote, we’ll get a senile President. If you don’t, we’ll get a senile President.
there are other candidates you can vote for
You’re still going to get a senile president.
Harm reduction dictates voting for the least harmful outcome, period.
the least harmful outcome is a third party winning
In which reality is that possible? Don’t be a dumbass.
The same reality that thinking voting for Biden in a rural deep conservative state is going to swing the vote. You can convince every person in the cities to vote democratic and still lose to the country side that state. Voting doesn’t work the same for every state, don’t shame people for voting their conscious. It’s always okay to shame voting for Trump, but don’t shame people for voting third party.
Afaik, that’s simply not true. Take a look at the margins that Biden won by in 2020 in a few key states.
You’ll notice that the third party votes could’ve easily swung the state outcome either way.
Finally, you’ll notice how far behind third party votes are. The conclusion I’m drawing is that the possibility of third party votes influencing the outcome between the two candidates is greater than the possibility of a third party candidate winning.
do not get a vote on whether or not to elect a senile President this cycle
Yeah this is just false.
He said, with no examples or evidence of any kind.
Edit the way "vote’ is used in that sentence isn’t so much a ballot transaction…it’s more a “choice”.
Biden or trump WILL be the next president.
This sucks but cannot be avoided.
Edit edit choose left right or abstain, it’s all the same. A senile president will be the next president
Biden or trump WILL be the next president.
Both are over the mean life expectancy, neither is in particularly great health, and it’s another six months until the inauguration.
Sure. But the chances of both of them croaking in the next 6 months are very low.
Biden has the whole US government at his back, highly trained and motivated to not let the sitting US president die.
Trump, well, terrible bastards seem to never die.
But the chances of both of them croaking in the next 6 months are very low.
The way Biden looked with a simple cough? And with the physical burden a continuous high stakes campaign puts on a candidate?
Wouldn’t even be the first time a President campaigned himself into an early grave. Harrison, Taylor, Harding, and FDR all leap to mind.
Biden has the whole US government at his back, highly trained and motivated to not let the sitting US president die.
All the SS agents in the world can’t save you from COVID
Bruh called it.
If you’re counting on one of them dying before the election, keep dreaming. FFS, Trump might very well run while incarcerated and it probably won’t dissuade anyone who is already committed for him.
Trump might very well run while incarcerated
I’d put more money on one of them dying than seeing the inside of a prison cell. The judge in the Trump trial explicitly stated that he did not want to put a sitting president in prison.
Trump isn’t a sitting president yet, he’s still a former president.
Judge Merchan said that before the guilty verdict, when Trump violated his gag order 10 times consecutively. His next words after “I don’t want to put you in jail” were “…but I will if you continue to jeopardize the judicial process.” (paraphrasing). Obviously, the judge did not want to resort to jail for criminal contempt because the case had a lot of eyes on it and jumping to jail before issuing warnings and fines gives the impression of impropriety or bias, which could have been grounds for a mistrial had he taken Trump’s bait.
Most people think he’s going to walk on the basis that he has no prior criminal convictions and that he’s the presumptive Republican nominee, but there’s also the fact that he’s shown no remorse for his crimes even after the verdict and that allowing him to escape a prison term with a slap on the wrist house arrest or a fine will not realistically deter him or others from committing the same crime.
I’d say it’s still a good possibility that he sees jail. Probably not for the max 3 year sentence, but some token amount of incarceration would be appropriate. He’ll likely be out before taking office should he actually win, and they’ll probably make special provisions for him to continue campaigning, so he probably won’t even spend that much time in an actual cell.
The real kicker is his next conviction will mean he has to contend with a criminal history, which will vastly increase his chances of receiving actual prison time. That all hinges on him not getting elected and pardoning himself for all the federal crimes he’s accused of, the most severe of which being his role in the J6 insurrection and the classified documents case which could easily land him in prison for the rest of his life.
His next words after “I don’t want to put you in jail” were “…but I will if you continue to jeopardize the judicial process.”
After the tenth contempt citation.
Most people think he’s going to walk on the basis that he has no prior criminal convictions and that he’s the presumptive Republican nominee, but there’s also the fact that he’s shown no remorse for his crimes even after the verdict and that allowing him to escape a prison term with a slap on the wrist house arrest or a fine will not realistically deter him or others from committing the same crime.
I doubt he’ll make this particular mistake another time, mostly because he’s got too much media scrutiny to still run around with high end call girls.
But when it comes to the actual governance? He’s not going to get punished for that.
I’d say it’s still a good possibility that he sees jail
I would not put any amount of money on it.
The real kicker is his next conviction will mean he has to contend with a criminal history
All the rest of the cases are either dropped or delayed until after the election. Either way, there’s not going to be a “next conviction” before it no longer matters.
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Lol
Edit if you think the dnc is going to flexibly react to new information, and bring up a non establishment candidate, at this part of the game, well, you do you.
You seemingly need to hurl insults to disagree with people. Thats pretty lame. Disagree with my position all you like, that’s fine. But acting out isn’t helping your position.
So yeah, let’s chat again later on. I personally don’t think it’ll be anyone but trump or Biden.
Edit edit still no examples or evidence. When you’re suggesting things other than the norm/the status quo are gonna happen, you need to show up with more than a wall of text and a lot of sass lol
Who says it won’t be an establishment candidate?
I need a remindme bot for a year out, lol.
I feel like you’re technically right that there is a (highly improbable) chance it will not be between Biden or trump, but it’s not something I’d lean on this hard, haha.
It’s not improbable at all.
I was like “oh hey, that random dude called this a few weeks ago, I should swing by and say props, I wonder what they’re up to” and wow, you’re really trying to rub people’s noses in it, huh?
You were doing real damage with what you were putting out. Its a kind of lying, both to yourself and others, and need to be called out for it.
I love how you accuse someone of being wrong- then go on to say a bunch of unproven opinionated nonsense. It’s almost as if you don’t really know what you’re talking about.
Chill, mate. Go for a walk…
Love that ratio!
Which candidate of our only 2 parties that matter isn’t senile this cycle?
He’s probably a brain parasite guy.
Poor little guy starved to death.
It’s up to the DNC as to which candidate takes the running ballot. I’m betting there are a lot of conversations right now about who will be that person.
You are half right and half wrong because that decision will come down to whether establishment Democrats or populist Democrats win.
And to be quiet frank, I don’t even think the DNC gets a say. Since Biden is the incumbent, unless he bows out voluntarily, I don’t think we the people or the DNC get to choose.
Our hands are really tied when it comes to the presidential frontrunner, unfortunately.
It’s always telling when some one insists that a statement is true when they themselves know that it isn’t.
It’s 💯 the case the Biden isn’t the nominee today. I’m not arguing if it’s going to be a progressive or a insider that replaces him. Frankly, I could give a shit because either will be doing instantly better than Biden.
Biden is replaceable and there is a cult of personality that has developed that believes this isn’t the case. They’re wrong. There as delusional as the right wing MAGA crowd and their doing MAGAs work for them as the useful idiots that they are.
It’s important to keep it clear that I’m not arguing that some how magically were going to replace Biden with a progressive. I’m arguing that needs to, and will be, replaced. That’s what Thursday showed us, and I know for a fact that the Beltway heard this.
The party that needs to be convinced is Harris. And I think she can be. All of these machinations are happening this weekend, as we speak.
My called shot: Biden steps down as early as Monday, as late as two weeks from Monday. I’m going to be making some calls and seeing what tea I can find spilled.
Or vote third-party, and you’ll probably get a senile President, but maybe not.
And more importantly, you’re helping to break the Duopoly and normalize voting third-party.
If a minor party manages to get 5% of the vote, they qualify for federal funding in the next election, and that might lead to real change.
Cornel West is polling at about 3% (and after Biden’s performance, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cornel picks up a couple more percent). We could be close.
Edit: Or just keep on thinking you have to settle for the lesser of two evils. (How’s that working out for you?)
If you’re in a state that will certainly be blue or red and has 0% chance of swinging unless a huge proportion of the population changes their party affiliation (California, New York, Mississippi, Alabama, to name a few) then vote 3rd party, sure.
If your state was within 10% of flipping colors in any of the past 3 presidential elections, DO NOT vote 3rd party. Your vote matters too much to risk it.
^THIS^
Yeah, that’s the conventional wisdom. When Ross Perot ran, most of his support came from states that weren’t swing states.
(Despite often being called a “spoiler”, he probably had little impact on the result of the election because of that.)
But! Later polls showed that 35% of voters would have voted for Perot if they thought he could win. And if all those people had voted for Perot, he would have won!
Just something to think about.
If we could somehow ensure that our actual desires were reflected by our votes without simultaneously risking our vote being wasted by splitting support between similar candidates, we could have actual representative democracy. But we all have a duty to prevent the worst to the best of our ability, even at the sacrifice of our support of what we think would be best, but unlikely.
Vote for ranked choice voting however you can. This paradox is intentional design, not an unforeseen consequence. We need to rework the voting system before things have any chance to get better without violent revolution.
It’s actually been mathematically proven that ranked-choice voting does not eliminate the so-called spoiler effect. It’s called Arrow’s Impossibity Theorem.
As people who live in a country with FPTP voting, we’re all intimately familiar with the drawbacks of FPTP voting. But all voting systems have their drawbacks.
(I’ve actually been a volunteer election worker in a country with ranked ballots and proportional representation, and the experience actually soured me on ranked ballots and proportional representation.)
Countries like Canada and the UK manage to have four or five parties with FPTP voting.
Stop waiting for the perfect voting system, because there is no perfect system.
I disagree. I too have been involved in elections in my country (Australia) and preferential voting system is pretty popular. As candidates get eliminated your vote keeps moving to your next choice. What could possibly be fairer?
What could possibly be fairer?
Approval or STAR voting, since they are more heavily utilized by all citizens instead of just white people, they are purely additive unlike ranked, which allows for easy auditing and making sharing the results possible in real time.
They’re also far easier to explain, which makes voting more inclusive, and the results more straightforward to follow.
RCV is definitely better than what we have now, but if we’re gonna have election reform we should go for the best possible system, not a half measure like RCV.
Countries like Canada and the UK manage to have four or five parties with FPTP voting.
And they both are dominated by 2 parties. Hardly a defense of FPTP.
Stop waiting for the perfect voting system, because there is no perfect system.
There may be no perfect system, but there are certainly systems that utterly fail to capture the will of the people, and FPTP (especially the US’s implementation of it) is one such system. People aren’t going to magically all change their centuries long behavior of voting for 1 of two parties. This is a systematic problem, and the solution is election reform.
And they both are dominated by 2 parties. Hardly a defense of FPTP.
Justin Trudeau’s current government is a minority government being propped up by a minor party (the NDP). That minor party were able to get the government to pass a Pharmacare bill in exchange for their support.
With just 24 seats in parliament, the NDP were able to deliver on an election promise to their voters. I’d say that’s pretty good.
and he still would have lost. he got nearly 20% of the popular vote and exactly 0 electoral votes. until we change the system, they cannot win. sorry. please vote against fascism
Once First Past the Post voting is gone, and ranked choice is in, third party will be viable.
But right now, that’s not the reality we live in.
Once the thing that’s never going to happen happens…
Well it’s certainly not going to happen if you ignore the realities of first past the post voting systems, vote third party, and let the party that depends on tactics to subvert democratic will win an election they shouldn’t have. Do that, and you may just not get to vote at all anymore.
Well it’s certainly not going to happen if you ignore the realities of first past the post voting systems,
If you’ve got a large popular mandate that reliably shows support for a policy (say, a large plurality willing to change FPTP to STB or Approval voting or whatever) then you can affect the change.
But even more than FPTP, we have a supermajority mandate to make changes to the electoral system on that scale.
Easier to win 50%+1 on an issue of policy than 67% on an issue of electoral function.
Do that, and you may just not get to vote at all anymore.
Civil Rights and Women’s Lib had to be achieved outside the electoral system, because these groups were deliberately disenfranchised.
Or vote third-party, and you’ll probably get a senile President, but maybe not.
Vote third party and we are guaranteed to get a senile president. It’s a two party FPTP system.
Edit: Or just keep on thinking you have to settle for the lesser of two evils. (How’s that working out for you?)
Better than telling people to throw away their vote. How’s that working for you? How many 3rd party presidents have you gotten elected with your strategy? How many fascist policies has your strategy avoided us?
I’ve long fantasized of people being so fed up with both parties, that along would come a third party at the right time and enough people would flock to them that and vote them into office.
But it’s just that: A fantasy.
And anyways, there’s always the chance that said third party would be way way worse and maybe there’s a good reason why they weren’t more prominent to begin with.
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t have the same fantasy, but until we get election reform it will only ever be fantasy.
And until it happens, we will never get election reform.
Not necessarily. The MAGA crowd took over the GOP. The same could be done for the DNC, but with actual leftists and election reformists.
There are several reasons why the MAGA crowd were allowed to take over the GOP. First, because they weren’t pushovers, if the party had tried shenanigans to stop them there was a real possibility of people defecting from the party en masse, and even of violence at the convention. Second, because the things they wanted weren’t really all that contrary to what the rich donors wanted.
The Democratic base is much more weak willed and willing to go along with whatever to stop the right. We don’t have enough of that Karen energy, that “my way or the highway” attitude. And election reform is directly contrary to the interests of the establishment, and the aim of prioritizing ordinary people over the rich goes against the interests of the doners. They’ll crush any internal movement in that direction, and people will still vote for them because of “vote blue no matter who” and lesser evilist ideology.
If every single person on Lemmy voted third-party I guarantee you they wouldn’t carry a single state. In a two party dominated FPTP/winner takes all system voting third-party for president is irresponsible
Vote third part and see how that works out for you.
Please don’t
Most of these people can’t be reasoned with. We’re at the point where there’s no excuses for them not to vote to keep Trump from taking over.
The gloves are off.
Okay, but swinging at third party people does nothing to sway them, tends to do the opposite, and tires you out. It’s like punching your own dick instead of your opponent in a boxing match.
They’re not third party. I’ll all but guarantee it. They’re just trying to ensure no one votes for Biden.
Because people not thinking like you is clear indication they are wrong. Sure
Full senile moment = “raspy voice”
Biden apologists are gonna be the reason Trump gets elected.
This Biden protection is crazy. we need a candidate who actually stands a chance against Trump. this is insane. It’s 2016 all over again.
Hey it worked out well when they protected Hillary…
Wait no it didn’t
I’m not voting for the insurrectionist in 2024. I don’t care how frail Biden looks. The choice is obvious. I’ll worry about the next candidate.
No one Is suggesting you should vote for Trump and his fascist. I’m saying I’m worried Biden won’t beat Trump and his fascist in an election because he’s not a strong candidate at all. This is the same problem we have with Hillary in 2016
You’re not wrong, but he’s the incumbent. They were never going to switch him out. He beat Trump last time, and there’s no way the DNC was ever going to float someone different. Hillary was not the incumbent.
But man it would be awesome to have “Yes we can” slogan energy back again. The speeches on the runup to Obama’s first presidential election were so morale-boosting. I ended up canvassing for him when I lived in northwest Indiana with my baby in a stroller and my toddler walking around with us. It was awesome.
Now I mostly just vote and get really upset a lot.
The reality is that with the Republicans embracing fascism America will not recover without the candidacy of another FDR, someone who voters can not only want to vote for but will replace any overly partisan Congresscritter that opposes his agenda.
That’s not happening. Period. Maybe the Democrats will win this year, maybe not, but in 2026 and 2028 they’ll still be ratcheting America to fascism regardless with their neverending deluge of “moderates” that are always a little more right than before in an appeal to voters who want a dictator instead of picking candidates their base actually wants.
This road isn’t ending well no matter what happens.
I dont care who you vote for. It is very clear to me you will vote for Democrats. That is great.
I do care about who my aunt and her family votes for, a lot. She is democrat leaning. Her husband is republican leaning. They both believe the middle class is getting destroyed by politicians for the last 2 decades. They are both retired. They used to be middle/low income. These days they are clearly low income.
- In 2004, they both voted for Bush.
- In 2008, they both voted for Obama.
- In 2012, they both voted for Obama.
- In 2016, they both claimed to vote for Trump, although I believe my aunt might have voted for Hillary. (Uncle has military background. He kept saying if he did what Hillary did when he was in active duty, he would be in prison for the rest of his life.)
- In 2020, they both voted for Biden.
For the last 2 years, they both are saying that they don’t want to vote for Trump but Biden destroyed the economy for middle class. It was clear they might give Biden another shot if he managed to recover the economy before the election.
Ever since the debate, they both are dead set on voting for Trump. All I hear is “Of course the economy would be bad, he is senile.” or any “Of course xyz would be bad, he is senile.”
As I said, I don’t care who you vote for. I care for the votes of people that have not decided whether to vote for Trump or Biden. In the debate, Biden lost a lot of them. Biden lost that debate, clearly! Saying “they both are senile” or “Trump lied during the debate” is damage control by Dems. If Dems insist on going forward with Biden, Trump will be president. I am sure of that.
Now you can say my aunt and her family are stupid. You can say I am stupid for not changing their minds. You can say Trump is an insurrectionist and we are all stupid. You can even say all of the Americans are stupid, it is your first amendment right. You can down-vote me to hell if it makes you feel good. None of these will change the fact that my aunt and her family will vote for Trump unless Dems change the candidate or Biden manages to shit rainbows and use it to gift a million dollars to my aunt’s family.
At this point being a Biden apologist is the same thing as voting for Trump. Trump will win.
Democrats will go down blaming the other Democrats that kept warning them of other centrist voters calling them Russian shills.
No sense of self blame and simply calling everyone else idiots cause they didn’t see their idea of a perfect future that no one else was included on.
Apparently a whole party of “being right” is not a good way to get others to join you.
The choice is obvious to you. Not to the average American.
The choice to not vote has merit
I don’t think that’s true. Please consider voting third party and don’t forget about the other down ballot races. 🙂 -just another dude stuck in the same political hellscape
Which 3rd party candidate is obvious to you?
Look ma! More clowns keep coming out that car! Hyuk! How many they got in there?
🤡 honk 🤡
I don’t even see why that matters. Even if the candidate was an actual real turnip, the choice would be obvious.
I mean I don’t vote in your election but it seems quite clear to me.
I think part of our different view might be based on how our electoral system is.
So to explain: Trump’s never won a popular election before. Even when he became president, most Americans voted for his opposition Hillary Clinton. We have a very gerrymandered and corrupt voting system to oversimplify. Because of that The main decider for presidential elections is voting turnout. If a lot of people come out to vote, the Democrats usually win. If they don’t the Republicans win. Voter turnout is higher when people want to vote for the Democratic nominee. No one really wants to vote for Biden. Most of us will vote against Trump myself included. That being said, if we run a very unlikable candidate against him like we did in 2016, he might win and that’s terrifying. This election is serious so we should take it seriously and run somebody likeable and not half way to being a turnip.
God forbid if Biden stays in there, I hope he wins. I’ll even vote for him but I am not feeling good about his odds.
I think you missed their point. They, and many others, don’t know why anyone would vote for Trump to begin with. Of course, I said the same thing when he first started being presented as a candidate for 2016. Like, of all people, him? But, here we are today, wondering if he actually had a chance for another term.
A different voting method may have avoided him getting this far, but he really shouldn’t have even gotten out of the joke candidate category to begin with.
My bad Thanks for letting me know.
I totally get that sentiment. I don’t really understand it either. I have family members that votes for Trump. It’s like their brain is rotted. They constantly use words that they don’t have a definition for like woke or CRT. They think everyone is lying except for Trump. It’s terrifying honestly.
I think that’s about 30% to 40% of Americans sadly.
In my experience, the people who vote Republican/conservative/Trump do so out of a certain amount of philosophical and emotional laziness and denial. Confronting the roots of our societal problems is difficult and uncomfortable, and takes a degree of empathy and emotional intelligence that many people simply do not have. To be clear; it is rarely their fault and frequently a result of the external influences and education during their formative years.
The conservative viewpoint that has functionally become hereditary and contagious is that you are special and good, and the only people that are also special and good must have the same values, prejudices, advantages, and deficiencies that you do. This is why if you are nice and polite to conservatives they start spouting more and more bigoted bullshit. It’s because, in their mind, the only good people are the ones that agree with them, and they perceive you as “good” for extending basic decency to them.
This cognitive shortcut is how I have succeeded in planting a lot of seeds of progressive values in the minds of my classmates at the conservative, religious school I accidentally ended up in. Each one of them is a single starfish, so to speak, but each individual moves the needle a little bit. Small progress is better than no progress.
I also attended a small private religious conservative school growing up. Happy to see someone like me out in the world with progressive politics. Good on you stranger. ☺️ I hope you’re living life to the fullest.
That explanation makes sense to me. Good theory 👈😎
I compare my time in a similar situation to being exposed to some nasty disease. It was misery at the time but has provided some inoculation against authoritarianism and demagoguery since. Also let me know sadists are a thing.
This is why if you are nice and polite to conservatives they start spouting more and more bigoted bullshit
I always interpret this as projecting their opinions. If you give the person nothing to suggest a specific political leaning and have a positive enough interaction it’s too easy for them to assume you hold the same values as you.
I’ve honestly caught myself in the same, so I just try to stay apolitical in interactions at work until others reveal their opinions to me
TLDR: the Electoral College is DEI for Republicans.
And before that, it was DEI for the pro-slavery States. Back before black people and even women could vote, whites didn’t have numbers enough to win many elections, so they created the Electoral College and made it so that black people counted as 3/5ths of a “person” and slave owners could vote in the names of their slaves.
Ah yes the 3/5 “compromise”.
Addendum point: The people we need to convince to win are not the people who see the obvious distinction between Joe and Trump, and if you haven’t convinced them yet, you probably aren’t going to – especially not after that debate performance (which is why they took the gamble to do that debate in the first place).
Yeah, this is where I’m at. I’m not an American, but I will feel the impact of your country’s decisions very quickly. I think the best option is to beg the non-voters to get out and vote however you can while building a new party, or rebuilding an existing one, from the local level on up until you have a realistic chance of putting a leader worth having in place.
For what it’s worth, I think the Biden administration hasn’t done terribly. They could have done much better with the latest episode of the Israel-Gaza conflict, but we literally had Congress people advocating for a nuclear response. A lot of improvements in other areas were quietly made in the background that wasn’t really talked about. I can’t say if that’s because Biden picked the right people to get things done, he had the right vision, or he just had good handlers. I’m not sure I care because, whatever the answer is, the opponent certainly doesn’t have any of those.
Because he has to be effective for four more years after the vote.
Fuck its like you people think everything just closes up for the next four years and elections are just a one-day championship ceremony
After the ceremony, you plant the turnip in a flower pot and have the administration run things. There’s hundreds of other people, from ministers (or secretaries, over there) to all kinds of aides and attachés and whatnot. Just one guy missing wouldn’t really make much difference.
And the guy who already beat him once just isn’t good enough huh
Even he agrees he isnt. How does it feel to be this wrong lol.
Did you see the debate last night? That ain’t the dude who ran in 2020. Also I think the political pressure pot of 2020 was unique because people were trapped inside and forced to watch the news even more. People would have voted for anyone but Trump then. There’s still a lot of people that feel that way myself included. But not everyone who felt that way in 2020 feels that way in 2024. That’s just the reality. I really don’t think Biden has it this time.
He should have been running ads reminding people of 2020
Biden seems to misunderstand why he won.
He seems to think that people were really impressed with him as a candidate and that since he’s so much more impressive than all the other potential Democratic nominees, he’s the only logical choice to try to beat Trump.
He certainly enjoyed the support of many people who believe that but he relied heavily on the support of several other cohorts to push him over the edge. Those cohorts didn’t like him. They didn’t like him at all. They just hated Trump more, held their noses, and voted for Not Trump.
Biden has been telling several of those cohorts that their priorities don’t matter. He had tenuous support from those groups and he took that support for granted. Many of those groups are now thinking, “You failed to deliver on the one thing we wanted from you. I no longer see you as a significant improvement over Trump.”
Claiming that they’re just throwing a tantrum over a raspy voice further trivializes their concerns and pushes them farther away.
A clever MAGA troll would make exactly this kind of post. All it does alienate critical voters from Democrats.
It’s important to remember Bernie was set to have the lead after Super Tuesday.
Then within like 24 hours of Super Tuesday, pretty much every other candidate dropped out and endorsed Biden.
It was too late notice for Bernie to campaign in all the states, or for voters to decide. They just followed their candidates advice and voted Biden.
Biden never had a mandate, and 2020 came down to a handful of states by like 10k votes each.
Mainstream media has been calling him “the next fdr” for so long I think he legitimately believes. He has no idea how unpopular he is with the average voter, because he doesn’t interact with the average voter. His campaign is tailored to getting donations from the wealthy, so Biden just gets handshakes from the famous and wealthy that tell him he’s perfect.
He’s insulated from real feedback and believe his yes men.
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The first primary was marred by controversy, as technical issues with vote reporting resulted in a three-day delay in vote counting in the Iowa caucus, as well as subsequent recounts. The certified results of the caucus eventually showed Mayor Pete Buttigieg winning the most delegates, while Senator Bernie Sanders won the popular vote in the state. Sanders then won the New Hampshire primary in a narrow victory over Buttigieg before handily winning the Nevada caucus, solidifying Sanders’ status as the front-runner for the nomination.[6][7]
Biden, whose campaign fortunes had suffered from losses in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada, made a comeback by overwhelmingly winning the South Carolina primary, motivated by strong support from African American voters, an endorsement from South Carolina U.S. Representative Jim Clyburn, as well as Democratic establishment concerns about nominating Sanders.[8] After Biden won South Carolina, and one day before the Super Tuesday primaries, several candidates dropped out of the race and endorsed Biden in what was viewed as a consolidation of the party’s moderate wing. Prior to the announcement, polling saw Sanders leading with a plurality in most Super Tuesday states.[9] Biden then won 10 out of 15 contests on Super Tuesday, beating back challenges from Sanders, Warren, and former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, solidifying his lead.[9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
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and one day before the Super Tuesday primaries, several candidates dropped out of the race and endorsed Biden in what was viewed as a consolidation of the party’s moderate wing. Prior to the announcement, polling saw Sanders leading with a plurality in most Super Tuesday states
Biden won because every other candidate besides Bernie coalesced around him to stop Bernie from winning as projected.
Biden literally hung his mouth open like a brain dead zombie. He lost his train of thought multiple times… He said “we beat Medicare” ffs. Wtf does that mean?? I want to defeat Trump, but Biden is not going to accomplish that. Change the Democratic candidate before it’s too late.
Any other candidate just wouldn’t have the name recognition. Millions of Americans just vote for the incumbent regardless of who it is
Is this the new liberal bible prayer each night? Keep telling yourself
god is real and he loves youBiden will win because he’s a “good” choice for the idiots who don’t know better?Hey now that we have the benefit of hindsight I just wanted to show you how wrong you were and how confident you can be that youre right when you’re so so wrong please be a little more open-minded going forward and listen to people😏
If Biden gets out of the way (of his own accord or not) and somebody else becomes the nominee, they will have name recognition immediately. I promise you.
They really won’t. I think as someone on Lemmy you’re probably overestimating how much the average person pays attention to politics
I appreciate the non-rude and direct response. Someone else raised this point to me and I responded with this link that shows 70% of Americans watch cable news. Considering digital news is much bigger now, that means even more Americans watch the news regularly, so I believe you are incorrect.
That’s not how public perception works. Most people don’t watch the news.
That is how public perception works. Anyone who became the Democratic nominee between now and the election would instantly be famous. Their name would become a household name within a week. There’s no real way to prove this, but it just seems silly to think otherwise.
Most Americans do watch the news. The link below is a statistic just about cable news. If you included digital news, the numbers would be even higher. Here’s my source 👈😎 But as you can see 72% of Americans watch cable news.
I hope that helps ☺️
Right, anyone who thinks their name and the attention wouldn’t go viral overnight is clueless. It will go something like this:
BREAKING NEWS: Joe Biden to RESIGN FROM THE PRESIDENCY; ENDORSES GRETECHEN WHITMER
For 5 weeks:
MEDIA: omfg omfg omfg omfg
SOCIAL MEDIA: omfg omfg omfg omfg
MILLIONS GOOGLE:: “Who is Gretchen Whitmer!?”
OBAMA, BIDEN, DNC rally behind Whitmer
WHITMER’S POLLING & NAME-RECOGNITION: Skyrockets
At convention:
MEDIA: Omfg omfg omfg
GRASSROOTS: ENERGIZED.
Swing-voters: Happy to vote for someone young and a fresh face because we’re America and we like new less boring shit.
Agree, this astroturfing is insane. I can’t help but think it’s a coordinated campaign, because Biden was very clearly senile in that debate, if not something worse. Democrats can still win if they let Biden retire and choose someone who can rebut Donald Trump.
How can someone even expect him to not be senile at this age.
I can’t help but think it’s a coordinated campaign,
Social media with bots and shit allow for such, yes.
By the way, I don’t think the organizers of this campaign want Dems to win. They want Dems to lose.
It may not be seen from the US and the EU, but Trump’s presidency has helped quite a few disgusting things to start happening in various parts of the world, though they continued during Biden’s presidency.
Just look at my two recent submissions to c/politics that were immediately down-voted anonymously for highlighting FOCUS GROUPS of UNDECIDED SWING VOTERS.
Not one substantive argument.
And you know I can’t tell if it’s scared Dems, or astroturfing right-wing operatives trying to ensure we maintain course with this sinking ship.
Not astroturfers; brigaders…the worst kind of trumpian pussy
Try scared democrats who refuse to accept that anyone could disagree with them cause they are right and think by plugging their ears it will just work out.
Dude I’ve been wondering the same thing lately. I’ve been countering the same types. I’ve been referring to him as blue maga.
Are there any communities where we can look at that kind of data and commentary without being censored? Lmk, c/politics is insane.
c/politics is a radical conservative liberal shithole. None of those people give one single fuck about this country or it’s people. They’re fucking brunch lemmings who round up their change at Whole Foods and think they’ve saved the world
To be fair, that’s just Lemmy.world in general at this point in time. It’s only gotten worse.
Rich people who are less and less connected with those they pretend to be on the same side of. There is also a lot of entitlement of thinking they know how everything works and they and only they have the right answers from most of the user base of Lemmy. That’s a curse from everyone that’s here thinking they are “smarter” for being here than traditional social media.
I don’t think many people here are rich or think they are smart just because they use Lemmy.
I think it’s more insane to say that Biden doesn’t have a chance against Trump when he’s already beaten Trump once, which is why he’s President Biden.
He’s deteriorated a lot in 4 years
No, he hasn’t. He’s always been slower and more measured in what he says because he used to be a stutterer, so he comes across less strong in his speech, but it’s his actions that matter much more.
Have you seen this last debate? I would have said exactly that until I saw this one. To me the difference between Biden in this debate vs Biden debating in 2020 is night and day different. So I think it’s fair to say rapidly deteriorating. 🤷
Well I hope you’re right but I and many other see it differently. 🤷
Hey buddy how does it feel to have been so wrong? You thought the idea that biden didnt havw a chance was insane but even Biden dropped out because he knew he didn’t. I just wanted to remind you how confident you were that you were right when you couldn’t have been more wrong 😏 😜
Except I wasn’t wrong. If he had stayed in I believe he would beat Trump. He only dropped out because he could see the party infighting, and dropped out to try and unify the party. But, had he remained in the race, he ultimately would have beaten Trump. The only way we would know if I had been wrong was if he had stayed in the race and then lost, otherwise I still believe in the end he would gave defeated Trump.
😏
So let me get this straight the Democratic party due to a wide range of polls that indicated Joe would lose to Trump decided to pressure Joe to step down. Joe ultimately agreed to step down because of it. they all believed he would lose but you know better than them all with all of their resources and connections to the presidental race itself. Lmao sure dude
Polls 5-6 months out of the election are not indicative of how people are actually feeling. In the end, when the election actually happened, I believe people may not have been excited to vote for Biden, but I believe people would have definitely not wanted Trump to win. As I said, Biden already defeated him once in part because of that reason.
Bush was clearly the face man of an executive admin that he didn’t run, he was s figure head. Clinton, it was assumed by the press and a lot of the voter base wasn’t running his admin, the first term Hillary was said to be running things and a slew of technocrats was assumed his second term, Reagan, we now know historically, was experiencing Alzheimer’s all through out his presidency, much like Trump, he also had a strict schedule of not even pretending he showed up to work.
There’s nothing wrong with electing the face of an administration you want in office, this is largely Obama’s admin still running the government, that’s what we all want. Unkie Joe can take all the naps he wants, it make no real difference.
I don’t know why everyone thinks this is some rarely understood point. I think most people get this.
However, You have to be electable to a country where 30 to 40% of people. Think Trump is a god king who can do no wrong and never lies. Hillary’s administration almost certainly would have been better than Trump’s. Hillary still lost. Biden running as he is now is dangerous. That’s where it makes the real difference. Biden might lose to trump and we might get Trump again. Any other sane and half way competent milk toast politician won’t have that problem. Biden continuing to run is a danger to democracy.
This is a terrible sentiment. Yes, no leader can do things by himself. But he needs to be present. He needs to understand what is going on. He needs to be able to resolve conflicts and make decisions. And he needs to smell it, if someone is trying to sell him bullshit.
Do you think the administration is just all great teamplayers who have no agendas of their own, who have no conflicts or problematic histories with each other? Of course not.
Think of it like any team sports team. You cannot win the superbowl or champions league with a bad trainer.
This is a really important point.
The president is really only as good as his staff. They can only do so much as an individual person.
Joe Biden knows how to hire a good staff, and respects the limitations of hisnl office.
Meanwhile, if Trump could’ve harnessed the energy from his revolving door of “loyalists”, we might’ve been able to stay under 2°C.
But, part of Project 2025 is actually planning to make 50,000 merit-based non-political positions (basically middle-management, and sometimes lower, at NASA or ATF or Dept of Education or FDA) into political appointments, and fire them if they don’t toe the party line. In order to circumvent Congress and run everything unilaterally.
Are you telling me that a younger progressive would not have a good staff?
Yeah. That was a weird comment…
Biden supporters try to defend Biden, and always end up making the argument that trump is terrible and/or the president isn’t important
So like, we should just replace him is the logical conclusion.
But that’s the opposite of what they set out to say.
The president sets the tone of the administration. Ultimately they are the big boss, but they don’t do everything.
I take issue with being called a Biden supporter. Biden is mediocre at best. I’dve much preferred if a more…motivational, I guess, DNC candidate in 2020. We obviously knew that whoever won would be 4 years older (and many more battle-worn) come re-election, and it’s pretty unorthodox for any party to let the incumbents president be primaried. I can’t think of a time.
In fact, I think the DNC was secretly hoping that Biden would’ve bit the dust 2 or 3 years in.
I am not going to vote for Joe Biden. I am going to vote for the Biden Administration. They can “Weekend at Bernie’s” the old man for all I care.
Biden could drop dead on January 21st and we’ll still get to call this mission accomplished, VP Jeffries ain’t a half bad outcome personally, although Kamala having her eyes on that incumbent effect is gonna make me groan come 28
Jeffries is literally one of the most corrupt neolibs in Congress in terms of taking bribe money.
That’s been the standard US Presidential SOP since Nixon developed a serious drinking problem and Kissinger demanded all orders go through him first (so as to avoid WW3).
They had an old, dementia ridden actor, and the dumb-ass Bush son for that reason, too. HW Bush could handle his shit but he raised taxes and puked on the Japanese PM so that’s a pass. Trump is just another stooge to be kept in line so that his doners get what they want.
Sounds like a great strategy… smh
Might as well give Trump the presidency on a silver platter
Tell me you skim when you read without telling me you skim when you read. 🤣
Nah you should be advocating his replacement
Sounds like a great strategy… smh
Might as well give Trump the presidency on a silver platter
Better idea than voting for Biden’s earworms
This is a good perspective. Great way to look at it.
I have no faith in the future and only pray death is swift and merciful. I will vote Biden in hopes of delaying the inevitable another four years.
I was hoping that the Right’s march into fascism was going to be the call to action that Americans needed to abandon them and push the country into being a proper developed nation…
Instead, people go along with it to own the libs, and the privileged who know better have the resources to stamp their foot and wait for a savior they should know will never come.
We should all be screaming at the top of our lungs for Biden to drop out now. Fast. Throw in Newsom or Whitmer. I’ll vote for either, doesn’t matter.
This is a no brainer, and no loss. Either they do it which would be great, or we’re stuck with biden anyway, who now looks to be much worse off against trump.
Everyone should be telling biden to drop out. Everyone everyone everyone. And loudly.
It doesn’t matter who you or I will vote for. People that understand the danger of Trump would vote for a ham sandwich. What matters is who swing voters and never-Trumpers will vote for.
Most of them would never vote for anyone from California because that state is synonymous with the worst problems of the left. They would also never vote for Whitmer because she is a self described progressive (and let’s be honest, being a woman doesn’t help with more traditionally minded centrists).
Jared Polis would be ideal, although I would bet unfortunately being gay and Jewish would hamper him. His type of politics is exactly what we need to appeal to those toying with the idea of Trump.
I dont think anybody actually likes Newsom, hes a rich bastard who basically everyone dislikes. He aint got the respect Brown has due to just being a decent bureaucrat he doesnt have the goodwill of Schwarzenegger due to atleast trying his best. Hes just a dime a dozen slimeball politician nobody actively likes.
Exactly, anything will be better than trump/gop
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Chase Oliver for President 2024!
A guy who has never held office anywhere, isn’t a Democrat, and believes the free market will fix climate change should be the Dem candidate? He’s not a serious option.
I will admit I love his “Ellis Island” style immigration, but that would be immediately disqualifying for exactly the kind of centrist and never-Trumper people we need to win over.
I’ve dropped emails to Schumer, Jeffries, and my local senator and congressmen to tell them that Biden should drop the fuck out. Those that are going to vote blue are going to vote blue regardless. No one who was voting against Trump is suddenly going to switch it up.
If Harris. Comes the pick, that’s the only wild card I see. She will alienate a lot of folks because she isn’t as progressive as media is making her out to be. And let’s face it…racism and sexism.
If Harris. Comes the pick, that’s the only wild card I see. She will alienate a lot of folks because she isn’t as progressive as media is making her out to be.
I don’t think I can comfortably vote for someone who made their career as a prosecutor, she may as well have been a cop. I didn’t like her as VP either for the same reasons.
Didn’t she make a name for herself as a DA aggressively procecuting for MJ? People who statistically looked a lot more like her than me? So we get slow roll fascism instead of a sprint?
(heads to wikipedia)
She prosecuted more than her predecessor, and her replacement issued blanket pardons back to 1975. So that was an option she had but chose not to take, as I see it.
Under Harris, the D.A.'s office obtained more than 1,900 convictions for marijuana offenses, including persons simultaneously convicted of marijuana offenses and more serious crimes.[76] The rate at which Harris’s office prosecuted marijuana crimes was higher than the rate under Hallinan, but the number of defendants sentenced to state prison for such offenses was substantially lower.[76] Prosecutions for low-level marijuana offenses were rare under Harris, and her office had a policy of not pursuing jail time for marijuana possession offenses.[76] Harris’s successor as D.A., George Gascón, expunged all San Francisco marijuana offenses going back to 1975.[76]
I’m not a single-issue voter on MJ, but I think it’s a decent indicator of where her head was at.
Sure, if they put Harris up will I vote for her? Yeah. Then in 2028 they’ll tell me I have to vote for facist-lite again because Democracy is stil under threat even though Trump’s heart explodes from all those cheeseburgers in 2027, so she’ll get a second term. No real chance of real progressive policies or whitehouse-driven police reform until 2032.
I’ve never seen Biden look as bad as he did in the first debate, so I’d like to see how he is in the second debate before I kick him to the curb. Then maybe we get someone who isn’t so cozy with police in for 2028 instead of Kamala’s second term.
Honestly, maybe I am a bit detached with my European perspective but doesn’t the president come with a lot more? An entire cabinet of ministers, the parliament etc. So even if the president is not your type of person, maybe it doesn’t matter much?
You are exactly correct. A lot of Americans think of the President as the sole arbiter of government authority, despite the fact that they are just the head of one of three branches of government. As head of the Executive, they have a ton of agencies and advisors who report to them.
This is true, but the president (or presidental candidate) is also the face of their backing party, and that matters a lot. We’ve seen other people try it, but Trump is the only one who can really whip up the MAGA frenzy, which is why conservatives have painted themselves into a corner with him. Likewise, Biden represents what democrats find frustrating about the party: out of touch geriatrics who promise nothing but more of the same.
So yeah, while the president isn’t doing most of the work directly, they set the tone, and they have a lot of influence over (or direct power to appoint) people who run major things.
Genuine question from a non American, what happens if Biden wins presidency but then dies in the first year in office?
Kamala Harris, the Vice President becomes President for the remainder of the term. If the President and Vice president die at the same time, the speaker of the house becomes president. There’s a very long list of successors beyond that as well.
And if enough people die then Jack Bauer becomes president.
As an european, what scares me , it is that Biden is the ACTUAL president. If he suffers from dementia, who is really in charge now. Who takes the decisions? Usa are involved in at least two major wars and dictate the policy to the europeans. Who is responsible of that? If biden cannot be a candidate , why it is an actual president?
Biden shit the bed and should fuck off. But I’d vote for his corpse over any filthy republican traitor.
Both candidates would be more attractive to me if they died actually lol I wish we had the option to just skip having a president for 4 years haha
Why is there no option in the US to vote no confidence and force both parties to reelect new candidates?
Because our electoral system was created 200+ years ago and hasn’t had a major overhaul since.
The biggest overhaul was the Apportionment Act of 1911, which destroyed proportional representation in the US House of Representatives and Electoral College. If not for that, the GOP would have to move Left to gain support from high population states.
Oh, so 200+ years ago it wasn’t so bad. LOL
That’s the thing. It still was but in different ways.
Dunno if it’s interesting to you, but communists in Russia often say that it can only get democratic again when the “against all” variant is returned to ballots (CPRF is usually not considered something genuine).
At least as pretense, the primaries are meant to prevent the need for that. And we like to pretend a third party could be successful if the other two are sufficiently incompetent/corrupt. In practice, the lawmakers will never implement a process that gives any amount of their power to the people. There was a window of time in the 90’s - 00’s where we thought the future might hold something other than the cyberpunk dystopia we all see coming. Now I’m reduced to just trying to enjoy the last vestiges of the middle class before it’s gone. Umm, but yeah, we should be able to vote no confidence.
Jesus fucking Christ I hate that I can’t tell if ur from the us or not cuz our constituency is so fucking dumb
A shame the electoral college voters won’t feel the same way
So the man has a stutter, and he’s old, what ever. All I can do is cast my single vote. Last time, I voted against Trump, and honestly, even after the debate, I’ll cast my vote this time for Biden.
I’d much rather cast my vote for Hakeem Jeffries, or Shift, or Bernie, or a dozen other people who aren’t an option.
Thing is, I’m going to cast my vote in Cook county IL, so it literally won’t matter. IL is going blue no matter what, and I feel like my participation is merely token.
I wish I could do more, I want to scream at clouds about what is happening to the country, and it doesn’t matter.
Saw a stat that says Trump is 65% to win, and want to physically grab people and shake them, but what would it matter?
Had I walked into that debate blind, not knowing who those people are, what the “facts” and the facts are, I’d have thought, that Biden guy seems weak and befuddled, and boy that Trump is sure a confident leader. It made me feel sick.
As I told my mother today, I don’t have kids, I live in the midwest, have a good job with a big stable company, truth is, even a second Trump term won’t effect me that much. I can just sit back, enjoy my 30 so years left, and watch the world burn, but damn it, I have empathy for others, and there are many, many people whose lives and livelihood are going to be seriously impacted, and that bothers me.
raspy voice
The gaslighting will continue until morale improves.
The people here are either delusional or trying to convince themselves they didn’t see a disaster of a debate.
“So he didn’t somersault onto stage” That… That’s not the issue here
Legitimately I can’t tell how much of it is self-delusion and how much is just blatant lying. Either way, these geriatric ghouls don’t deserve this level of mental gymnastics.
Even liberal media like the NYT are admitting it, and we can all see him with our eyes, I don’t see what this sort of blatant denialism is supposed to accomplish other than demonstrating in-group loyalty.
I don’t think this would convince anyone, but Trump has shown that lying about every fucking thing can convince some people. Maybe a less dumb version of this meme could move the needle for someone who is on the fence and hasn’t watched the debate. (There are dozens of them out there)
No idea why this was posted here though, or how so many people approve of it. It’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen. I guess there’s a lot more people on the platform who have legitimate Trump derangement syndrome and find this acceptable than I would’ve thought.
It’s not even in-group loyalty. In-group loyalty would be having the decency not to gaslight homies.
It is blue MAGAism. I’ve kept telling it people here for months and kept being shunend with the same ridiculous lines of argumentation. Either on Bidens health or for me more importantly on how supporting genocide is somehow a good and acceptable thing, because god forbid we demand and enforce a non genocide non neoliberal candidate.
Which brings me to another point. Trump was on brand. Everything he said was more or less predictable. Meanwhile Biden trying to talk about social justice and tax justice was clearly not his tune. So not only did the campaign managers not manage to prepare him for Trump being Trump. They gave him stuff to talk about, he doesn’t talk about normally, making his performance even less believable.
I don’t get what blue maga actually means. Does it get tossed both ways?
And I get frustrated that peeps can agree with others like 95 percent of the time then get absolutely shit on for having a differing opinion. If I can make a chain from what you said to a bad outcome with logical fallacies you’re obvs a nazi.
Yeah. Trump was Trump. I’ve never bothered watching his insanity so I don’t know if/how much he’s declining. But he’s a known quantity and not super interesting.
Blue MAGA as in dogmatically following and defending the leader, while deflecting any valid criticism with extreme vitriol. I have been called a secret Trump advocate for saying that Biden is a genocide supporter and in declining mental health. Pointing out that the Dems could have propped up a better candidate and need to do that, was met with attacks.
Saying that they are alienating minority voters was met with racist attacks against those minorities, claiming them to be dumb. Actually they willing to face much more threats than the white upper class liberal from a Trump presidency, but they have the backbone to say that genocide is a red line and they understand that if they accept one genocide the next one is coming, until they are the ones being genocided.
Any notion that the Democrats are an establishment party that is playing with fire by continuing down their establishment road instead of working towards being a real progressive alternative that most people would love to vote for, was shunned.
It is political delusionalism, fueled by gas lighting from the DNC cabal. Instead of motivating their base, instead of providing a vision and inspiration they chose to gaslight, shame and threat their base into submission. That is how you build a cult and that is how you destroy any progressive political movement. Because then all people are left with is fear of loosing out, which is easily exploited by fascists like Trump.
They did the same shit with Hilary. Just memory holed anything negative.
Because then all people are left with is fear of loosing out, which is easily exploited by fascists like Trump.
We need electoral reform that removes as much strategic voting as possible.
I don’t see what this sort of blatant denialism is supposed to accomplish other than demonstrating in-group loyalty.
That loyalty is a goal in itself for people not knowing any better.
For others it’s a way to make Trump win.
What I don’t get is how RFK Jr is still seen as something worse than a senile man and a man with terminal stages of neurosyphilis. He just has brain damage and some overvalued ideas, very well known and clear. While these two are simply not functional.
But then maybe it’s good I live in another part of the world.
Alternative is 4 years of more maga federal judges causing multiple generations of damage. It doesn’t matter at all about Bidens health. He has advisors. He has a vice president. No one would be filling federal benches in sewage. That it all that matters.
What does that have to do with anything? Did you reply to the wrong comment?
If you can’t keep up, I don’t know what to tell you.
Ok then, here’s my response:
There are strong ethical and practical arguments for going vegan, including reducing animal suffering and carbon emissions and reducing the risk of food contamination.
If you question how that relates to the conversation and isn’t just a complete non sequitor, then you can’t keep up and I don’t know what to tell you.
Cool story bro
Sounded like you were saying “just calling it raspy voice is gas lighting”
Yes, which it is. What does that have to do with anything you said?
Because his voice/health has absolutely nothing to do with the election and shouldn’t change any vote from Biden since his health is of no consequence whatsoever.
since his health is of no consequence whatsoever.
Uhm yes? That is the entire point. It is a stressfull job and you need to be at full mental and sufficient physical capacity to handle it. Biden showed that he is not up to it anymore. Trump also is starting to show signs of decline, but he is further ahead of the curve than Biden is.
Either candidate is unfit for office, but for Biden health is the crucial issue. And old age is not something you can recover from. Just statistically it is entirely reasonable to expect either one of them to die in office.
In the unique situation that the country finds itself in with an authoritarian destructive candidate is that any mid alternative is golden. In any other election then less important things like the health of the leader of one of the parties(pres candidate) does matter.
In our situation if the mid party leader dies then he is replaced by another mid. The identity of the mid is of no consequence at all.
We weren’t talking about the election or who to vote for, we were talking about his health. You can say that his health isn’t relevant to the question of who you should vote for, but you’re the one who brought that up in the first place. I’m just responding to a lie.
It’s literally just whataboutism, or a non sequitur. If a Trump supporter says something objectively false and I correct them, it would not a valid response for them to bring up problems with Biden in response to that. In the same way, if a Biden supporter says something objectively false and I correct them, then it is not valid to respond to that by talking about problems with Trump.
I’m allowed to keep you people honest, even if acknowledging reality is inconvenient for your narratives or goals.
Debates are little more than performances and Joe completely shit the bed.
This. Debates mattered 20+ years ago, when Candidates had just a few opportunities to talk about who they are, what they’ve done, what they want to do, and why those qualities make them the best choice for President.
Now, we have a near inescapable connection to politics. The content of the message is known, and the only reason for debate is confrontation, and delivery is all that matters.
tbf, debates have the potential to cut through the bubbles people put themselves in. You’re not seeing a manacured presentation of potential policy, you’re seeing it actively challenged…
At least, that’s the idea
is there a way to prove content manipulation on a website ? Isn’t reddit already super pro democrat… why is this fediverse and others being drowned in this bullshit ? Fuck them both biden and trump and us politicians, they are just puppets. The real masters are the corporations . I thought this website you would see more posts like reviving occupy wall street.
But the corporations they got the money…
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most important thing is that he can still use his arm to sign legislation. that’s all you need him for. the actual deal is the cabinet. that’s what you’re voting for.
too bad most people don’t think about that, and fuck the dnc for putting the country in this situation.
…primaries where you get vote among these candidates. There were options.
In my state there were literally not other options. We had a single candidate primary.
Almost as if the DNC is not democratic and making sure to get their puppet in, instead of a leader.
idk how that’s relevant now
Just like complaining who’s running the parties isn’t relevant now. That’s the point.
i gotta admit that my brain is too small to comprehend your point
Sounds like a you problem then.
yeah definitely a me problem
This is a terrible sentiment. You need a team and you need someone to lead that team. Having the leader just be a puppet is terrible.
You’ll get a dysfunctional cabinet this way, you will get grifting, taking advantage of the puppet showing his face to bad ideas and you will get foreign influence prying on the weak puppet president.
And even if the president is not a puppet and “only weak”. We have a government falling apart and in deadlock because of our chancellor being a weak leader in Germany. The only thing holding them together at this point is the fear of them losing power sooner in an early election. All it does is give even further rise to the fascists.
You need a competent leader at the head of the cabinet. And that starts with her or him having their mental capacity.
oh you’re right. voting for biden may give rise to fascists… so we should let the actual fascists win instead. how have i never thought of this before‽
You let the Democrats gaslighting work on you. Since half a year they make us think, that the only two options are Trump and Biden, when in fact they could have allowed for proper primaries. They could have worked to prop up other candidates as viable alternatives. But they wanted the puppet they can control.
It is not too late to acknowledge Biden to be unfit and put up a different candidate. I have been advocating for this here since months. But instead of acknowledging that there is more real options, the DNC propaganda worked and works hard to limit our thinking to “its either one of them, no looking past the fishbowl”.
Biden was never voted because he was Biden. He was voted because he wasn’t Trump. Any halfway decent candidate that does not shares Bidens dogmatic support for genocide in Gaza and abusing immigrants can fill this role a hundred times better. Any such candidate could win the election in a landslide.
Pull the emergency brake on the Biden train. The Biden train is going into the abyss.
just tell us who you think people should vote for, instead of weaseling around it.
People should force the DNC to make primaries and have the people decide on a candidate.
they won’t, and that’s not an answer to my question
Then you vote third party and take the fight to the streets because you do not accept two genocidal mass murderers as legitimate options
Biden has been president for almost 4 years and we haven’t seen any of those things. That’s how I know all this FUD is overblown. The things you are describing were rampant under Trump, not Biden.
He needs to withdraw. He has to. The man looks like he’s dying. It’s time to stop playing pretend. This is fucking stupid. He’s literally not physically capable of being president. He doesn’t just have a raspy voice, he rambles incoherently, he can barely seem to register what’s going on at any moment. He nods off in public. He’s ancient. He should be no where near a political office.
If he runs he’s handing Trump the presidency. And I don’t even fully believe he cares. If he cared he would never have run in the first place. He also chose to hammer home on his unending support for Israeli colonialism and crimes against humanity. Just to further aleniate the progressives and moderates who want him to stand up for human rights.
I have no faith in him to drive a car let alone handle the political office of the presidency. He could be a literal corpse and he’d still get my vote over Trump. But you’re asking people to vote for someone who is openly incapable of doing the job he’s campaigning for. He HAS to step down. He CANNOT defeat fascism. He is not capable of it and he is so chronically neoliberal that he cannot even create a strong opposition to fascism.
We’re all freaking the fuck out because this is the worst scenario. The one we ALL SAID WAS COMING. We were all told not to talk about how old he is Trump is old too and all that. And Trump absolutely is old but he’s a fascist for one and fascists vote differently than anyone else does. But much worse he always rambles incoherently so standing next to Joe he looked as he normally does and Biden was the one who had visibly aged.
Enough is enough is enough he has to go. Where is the real political effort to have him withdraw. The clock is ticking until November and he HAS TO GO.
People acting as if Trump or Biden would run the show. Biden has a cabinet of people and appointees who are putting in place their policies put together by experts. His policies have mostly benefitted the lower and middle class with a focus on bringing manufacturing back to America and improving infrastructure.
Then theres Trump and Project 2025.
I think I’ll be voting Blue, regardless of who is running.
And they are all neoliberals and Reaganites
Honestly don’t care what its called or whose making the policies. If an administration is taking concrete steps to address wealth inequality I am going to vote for them.
People acting as if Trump or Biden would run the show.
So in other words, you think the president should be a puppet? Because that is the implication of responding to “dude is unfit for the office” with “well he is not running it anyways, he’s just the face.”
I don’t know of a single country run by a puppet that was run well. What you get instead is all the worst people to take advantage to put their personal benefit in, since it’s not their face associated with it.
Also internationally it is very very very bad to be run by a puppet. Nobody will take the puppet serious and everyone will again seek to put their own interests in. We already see that with Israel playing Biden like a fiddle.
So in other words, you think the president should be a puppet?
No, I think their point is that most of the “work” goes to the cabinet - you don’t have the president out there doing the legwork for everything.
he can barely seem to register what’s going on at any moment.
Saying this out loud hurts my heart. My father has dementia. He was diagnosed 3 years ago. I hope his progress stops or stays at slow pace.
During the debate, I saw a lot of similarities between my father and president Biden when it comes to their reactions to questions asked.
