• sheepy@lemm.ee
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    7 days ago

    It’s so wild to me that the US still has this fascist ahh ritual. Nobody told them that the godless Soviet Union fell already?

    • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 days ago

      So tame tho. See my other comment…

      We had not only national anthems, but a whole-ass flag raising ceremony weekly. And there’s even a “Little Red Scarf” ceremony once a year.

      When I first came to the US, I just thought the pledge was a normal thing. But according to some Europeans on the internet, its apparantly just… not a thing in their country?

      • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        Not only is not a thing, but the rest of the world views it as distinctly odd. Performative patriotism looks a bit creepy from the outside. I guess you have to be born into it, but we all know that family who does something and remains unaware just how it looks?

        • TheFogan@programming.dev
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          4 days ago

          There’s a lot that I would say that are just crazy to me when they become inherent by definition indoctrination.

          Circumcision and childhood baptism also fall into those categories for me. Want to devote yourself to a religion have at it. but how the hell is it not a huge ass red flag to encourage the major changes and opinions at an age that clearly decisions can’t be made.

          Baptism at least can be ignored… it’s a bath at worse, a sprinkle at best. But it’s still a facepalmingly stupid concept at best when the child clearly isn’t the one making the decision (obviously excluding when adults decide to be baptised, I have no objections there).

          Same for teaching kids to pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. Same for “teach them to love their country etc…”.

          No you know what, teach them accurate history of their country, and of other countries. When they have understanding of it, let them compare, see what our country does good, did bad, with context of what other countries did that was good, and bad.

        • nfh@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          Even being born into it, it feels weird. I’ll stand politely when the national anthem is played at a sporting event, because that feels only slightly odd. But the pledge of allegiance always gave me straight cult vibes, no thanks.

          I’ve seen multiple groups of Australians treat their national anthem with mild irreverence, which feels so much healthier.

          • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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            6 days ago

            As an Australian I can confirm this. Anybody silly enough to act patriotic in any group will be sledged mercilessly.

      • HowManyNimons@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        It’s completely not a thing in any country I’ve visited except America. You guys are the gold ribbon looniest.

        • MajorHavoc@programming.dev
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          6 days ago

          You guys are the gold ribbon looniest.

          Aw, shucks. Thanks!

          I realize it’s not a compliment, but we need a win, right now, so we will take it.

      • leftzero@lemmynsfw.com
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        6 days ago

        But according to some Europeans on the internet, its apparantly just… not a thing in their country?

        It used to be a thing in my country… back when it was under a fascist dictatorship.

  • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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    7 days ago

    If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.

    […]

    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    Justice Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette

    While it’s true that this ritual is commonly practiced in the US, it is also true that everyone has the protected right to not participate, which has been upheld in court (Frazier v. Alexandre).

    Personally, I feel that choosing to exercise your civil rights is a highly patriotic act.

    • MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml
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      6 days ago

      I’d say you guys value patriotism too much. Typical of an empire too.

      Btw, it’s what gave rise to the Nazis (among other factors).

    • DreamButt@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      Right except most kids and teachers don’t know about that so the kid still gets forced to do it

      • AeonFelis@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Even if they knew - the hurdle is too high for a kid to go through. And even if they did - they’ll probably face retribution from the school for dragging them to court.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      Yeah i didn’t partake starting when as a teenager I saw Germans on thr internet expressing concern about it. Nobody said anything it was my right as an American not to pledge my allegiance to America.

    • towerful@programming.dev
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      6 days ago

      I was 8 when I moved to the US. It was bizarre. Obviously, as an outsider, I felt I had to fit in. I never questioned it. I didn’t understand it. I just said the words.
      I guess at some point you understand the words (I left the US before then), but by that point it’s probably become a habit. It’s still the thing that everyone else in the class does. And you still want to fit in.
      Never mind understanding the politics of the US that you have the right to not do something that is habitual and seems completely normal.

  • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 days ago

    Lol, the US seems tame by comparison.

    I remember in China in like first or second grade, we had a whole ceremony in the school yard where they put on the little red scarf thingy on the kids (Google it: “China Little Red Scarf” and see what I meant; edit: I google it and found this wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Pioneers_of_China), after singing the natioal anthem and watching the kids do the the whole flag raising ritual. Idk what the f was even happening at the time, but restrospectively, that felt like joining the Jonestown Cult.

    (While that “little red scarf” ceremony was a one time thing, the flag raising ceremony was more frequent. I don’t remember exact how frequent, but I’m gonna guess like maybe every monday. Cuz I remember sneaking out before they had us go to the school yard, and I just kinda just chill at some “vantage point” where I can see the kids in the school yard, while I just chilled, outside of the sun. I mean, I probably just didn’t feel like being in the school yard and being in the sun, cuz its feels like being cooked alive in the heat.)

    • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
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      7 days ago

      That uh, does seem more tame than the US.

      The pledge was every single morning, in my experience AFTER the national anthem and a moment of silence. We had to stand for the whole thing. (And in Texas, also have to do a Texas pledge)

      Then if course we had our insanely biased teaching of history, minimizing our genocide and slavery. Forcing us to learn about important founders to a degree that they become sort of semi-god figures.

      • sanpedropeddler@sh.itjust.works
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        7 days ago

        That’s very strange. In the schools I’ve been to it was just the pledge, and you don’t have to stand. They aren’t legally allowed to force you to stand or say it, but some schools do anyway.

        • Bongles@lemm.ee
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          6 days ago

          That’s part of the problem of states handling everything so differently. In New York, I had the pledge every morning, that’s pretty much national, but nothing else almost ever outside of sports (national anthem). Not only did they know you didn’t have to stand, they taught us that in history class.

          How can you come together “as a nation” when your education from state to state can be completely different.

    • jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de
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      6 days ago

      So the US has a slightly lighter propaganda ritual than an actual nationalistic dictatorship. Their religious nutjobs are also slightly less evil than the Taliban. What a country! /s

  • datendefekt@feddit.org
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    7 days ago

    I grew up in the States but never was a citizen. In second grade after a while of this silly ceremony I asked the teacher if I really had to participate, because it didn’t really apply to me. And the teacher was totally cool with it!

    It was even wierder afterwards, being the only one sitting and watching everyone.